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What If G-YMMM Had Made It To The Runway?  
User currently offlineStarglider From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 665 posts, RR: 44
Posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3811 times:

Just a few hypothetical questions.
With the crash investigation now into its sixth month since G-YMMM / BA038 "touched down" on the grass approaching 27L at Heathrow on January 17 '08, i wonder, what if under the same circumstances, the T7 had made it to the runway intact?

With the yet to be determined cause(s) for the engines to roll back, would the aircraft have remained grounded to this day? Or, if after performing all conceivable fault isolation procedures had resulted in (as the investigation now officially stands) "could not duplicate fault", would the aircraft have returned to service?



Regards,
Starglider

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3787 times:



Quoting Starglider (Thread starter):
With the yet to be determined cause(s) for the engines to roll back, would the aircraft have remained grounded to this day? Or, if after performing all conceivable fault isolation procedures had resulted in (as the investigation now officially stands) "could not duplicate fault", would the aircraft have returned to service?

I think they'd swap engines and fuel pumps, do a detailed visual of the fuel system, and put it back in service. Hard to justify grounding an asset that expensive when you can't find anything wrong with it and you've replaced the components most likely responsible.

Tom.


User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3786 times:

I'd expect they would have gone further and replaced all throttle controlling systems, but yeah, it would have returned to operations.

User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

In an incident of this type (as opposed to the accident it was) it's normal for the manufacturer to take posession of the airframe until a resolution can be determined.
In other severe cases with other aircraft BAC has kept the plane for up to a year before returning it to the original owner and service.
The 747 pylon problems in 92 and 373EV in ANC comes to mind. Boeing kept the plane for a couple of months until they determined the ultimate cause (it wasn't the fuse pins) and a method to ensure it wouldn't happen again.
The regulations aren't specific but the consequences are. They're still settling the lawsuits over the 747 crashes after lost engines.
 Smile



One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3598 times:



Quoting Avioniker (Reply 3):
(it wasn't the fuse pins)

That had passed me by. What was it in the end?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

They'd probably replace both QECAs,check the fuel system,EECs & carry out a few Flight tests.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAvioniker From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 1109 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

In the case of 473 it was some figure 8 drill holes in the center pylon hoop assy that led to cracking and failure in the area of the fuse pin bushings.
The #2 engine is canted in 2 degrees to take advantage of airflow at cruise speed but this also causes the engine inlet to oscillate in a figure 8 pattern which exascerbates any defect regardless of how minor.
When they did ultrasonic testing on the rest of the fleet they found the same thing on an awful lot of planes. The holes weren't obvious because of location and a number of them were in sandwich layers thus invisible. X rays didn't pick them up either.
The plane that led 473 out of ANC was found to have two of the fuse pins "crankshafted" because of the same problem that caused the pylon to flex much more than normal when it flew through the same windshear. It made it to JFK but no telling when the pins would have failed.
 Smile



One may educate the ignorance from the unknowing but stupid is forever. Boswell; ca: 1533
User currently offlineStarglider From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 665 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3312 times:

Thanks for your replies. Perhaps the chances of finding the cause(s) for the mishap would have increased if the aircraft had been intact when compared to the actual damage inflicted.

Could the impact and subsequent damage to structure, components or wiring somehow have removed a failure mode, restoring an intermittent and possibly unrecorded fault of some kind back to a normal condition?


Starglider


User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3301 times:



Quoting Starglider (Reply 7):

Could the impact and subsequent damage to structure, components or wiring somehow have removed a failure mode, restoring an intermittent and possibly unrecorded fault of some kind back to a normal condition?

I suppose its possible, but about as likely as an A380 being able to ride thermals and waves like an ASK-21.

The investigators are extremely good however, I'd put money on them finding the actual cause sooner or later, probably sooner.


User currently offlineStarglider From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 665 posts, RR: 44
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

To GST,

quote:
I suppose its possible, but about as likely as an A380 being able to ride thermals and waves like an ASK-21.
unquote

Or a B777 with 2 donks rolling back before you can count to 10 . . . . .

I agree, given time the investigators will present hard evidence to why this happened, 'most probable cause' just wouldn't be satisfactory to all parties involved.


Starglider


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