QFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2025 posts, RR: 1 Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4576 times:
HI there, just some preamble, the other day, I arrived in Sydney on a DJ flight and as we were pulling into the gate a Global Express taxied past looking awesome to go to the GA apron. This was at 5:30 on a Friday night, one of the busiest times of the week as business people go home and others arrive. Sydney airport is restricted to only 80 movements per hour and with QF and their delays flights were popping up all over the place. When we went past the GA apron on the way home there were a large number of bizjets there, more than I have ever seen there.
I had a quick look on the database and it seems that some bizjets are able to get into big slot restricted airports like JFK and LHR. How do they do it?
Jetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1523 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4562 times:
I few slots an hour at LGA or other slot restricted airports are held for GA airplanes, something like 3 to 5 an hour. In most cases a reservation is required to get a slot for the time requested, usually 24 to 48 hours in advance, basically first come first served for the reservation.
I believe that lifeguard airplanes, (medical transports) are exempt and not slot limited.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4519 times:
Doesn't slots mean gate space rather than flying into an airport? I mean, a plane can fly into an airport and not use gate space.
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Jetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1523 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4512 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3): Doesn't slots mean gate space rather than flying into an airport? I mean, a plane can fly into an airport and not use gate space.
No, a slot is a landing slot and is basically permission to land within a certain hour, it has nothing to do with gate space because GA aircraft do not use terminal gates, they go to the FBO on the airport.
To make a reservation for a GA landing slot at LGA, you call in as soon as the reservation time opens for the hour you want to land and if it is available then you get it assigned to your aircraft by N number.
If you are late for the arrival because of a late departure other then delays caused by weather or ATC, then you lose the landing slot and cannot land.
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 2): What about some place like PHX? I flew in there impromptu may times in nothing bigger than a Piper Seminole and got in with no problems, IFR or VFR.
Was I just lucky?
PHX is not slot restricted, so no reservation is required. The only airports that I know of that are slot restricted are LGA, DCA, JFK after 4 pm and I think ORD.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4492 times:
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8492 posts, RR: 43 Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4473 times:
If landing fees were based on a market-rate demand for that hour, chances are you wouldn't see anything very small moving at the airport during peak hours. Alas, the regulated system doesn't allow that and inefficiencies abound.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
DL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4321 times:
could it have anything to do with the fact that larger jets can follow immediately behind the business jets (of course there is some amount of separation) and that a larger jet can follow them after takeoff unlike a business jet behind a 747. Just guessing it doesn't take up too much time
Jetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1523 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4316 times:
Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7): could it have anything to do with the fact that larger jets can follow immediately behind the business jets (of course there is some amount of separation) and that a larger jet can follow them after takeoff unlike a business jet behind a 747. Just guessing it doesn't take up too much time
For a bizjet departure behind a 747, there is normally a 3 minute wait for departure to allow for wake turbulence to dissipate.
In some cases the bizjet can waive the 3 minute delay and depart earlier. Wake turbulence does not start until liftoff, a 747 is a lumbering giant and uses a lot of runway and climbs slowly where most bizjets are overpowered and liftoff in a few thousand feet, especially when light so the bizjet can be airborne and out climb the 747 in the first few thousand feet and drift away from the departure pattern of the 747 to avoid wake turbulence. Did this many times in the JetStar behind wide bodies when were light,
but fully loaded on a hot day we were a ground hog so we waited the full 3 minutes.
On approach its different, one time following a DC-10 into ORD, we were being vectored to the final approach at around 4,000 feet when we rolled almost 60 degrees because of the DC-10’s wake turbulence, that was before they changed the separation behind heavies from 3 miles to 5 miles.
Corey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2519 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4240 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 2): What about some place like PHX? I flew in there impromptu may times in nothing bigger than a Piper Seminole and got in with no problems, IFR or VFR.
Was I just lucky?
Nope, the only airports in the US that require slots for GA aircraft are DCA and ORD. Close enough to the US, YYZ also requires slots.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3): Doesn't slots mean gate space rather than flying into an airport? I mean, a plane can fly into an airport and not use gate space.
No, in the US it's very easy to get slots and is simply for landing rights as obviously GA planes don't park at a gate.
Quoting Jetstar (Reply 4): To make a reservation for a GA landing slot at LGA, you call in as soon as the reservation time opens for the hour you want to land and if it is available then you get it assigned to your aircraft by N number.
Nowadays, domestically, YYZ is the only airport you call in to get slots. All of the US slots (HDA and STMP) are issued online.
To answer the original question, as a biz-jet operator, the only airports that come to mind that we cannot get into are MMMX and LEMD. We can get into LFPG, but it costs $10,000 extra so use LFPB instead. Other airports either no do not require slots at all, or will neet a landing permit/slots. Some common ones that we deal with on a regular basis that can be a pain are all the London airports, Geneva, Moscow, Beijing, Delhi, Mumbai, and Sao Paolo, Slots are applied for through the presiding civil aviation authority, but in most cases the handler at the airport will get them. Slots can sometimes be issued in a day, otherwise it can take a week or more.
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