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AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan  
User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL85

To avoid weather? Seems like they added at least 30+ minutes by doing that route...


...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21092 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3707 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
To avoid weather?

Most likely. Seems too big a diversion for wind. That's probably not the route that they filed, but ATC would have amended it to that.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6604 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3674 times:

It wasn't alone

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL15
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL177

Weather related I'd imagine and maybe couldn't go south because of other traffic restrictions.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1248 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

My guess is convective weather (thunderstorms) near to NYC, specifically to the west.


Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

Whats 30 minutes when they already departed 3 hours late? (based on the takeoff times over the previous flights).


Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5845 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

This was a pretty big line of weather. BWI was ground stopped, and nothing going west could depart for nearly 4 hours. It wasn't pretty.


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

oh wow. Yea I"ve never seen taht big of a change to a FP.... Then again, I haven't looked al l that much. I just noticed by accident listening to liveatc.net and hearing AA 85 coming in real late at night when its supposed to get in around 6pm.


...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
User currently offlineBWilliams From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3434 times:



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 3):
My guess is convective weather (thunderstorms) near to NYC, specifically to the west.

As a few people have already said, this is exactly it.

The route that United 15 took seems pretty common as a fallback from JFK to the west coast-- J95 up to Buffalo, over to Michigan, then somewhere west from there (in that case Green Bay), then pick up a straight western shot to the west coast.



Regards, Brad Williams
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
To avoid weather? Seems like they added at least 30+ minutes by doing that route...

If you're talking about this one:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...5/history/20080713/2148Z/KJFK/KSFO

...they not only avoided weather (at a cost of additional minutes of flight time) but they avoided a 4-5 hour delay awaiting the weather to clear the NYC area itself. This particular escape route is called the "CAN_7_WEST" and it's one of many alternative routings in ATCSCC's "playbook" of alternative routings to get from various A-to-B points within the USA when there's weather in between then.

On the day in question (a bad one, and I was working it too elsewhere on the east coast), many other flights were using the same basic route as did the AA flight. ATCSCC puts these routes out in advance, and the airline's dispatchers plans and file them.

(If this doesn't format properly, try the original at the link at the bottom)

ATCSCC ADVZY 062 DCC 07/13/2008 ROUTE RMD
RAW TEXT:
ATCSCC ADVZY 062 DCC 07/13/08 ROUTE RMD
NAME: CAN_7_WEST
CONSTRAINED AREA: ZOB/ZNY
REASON: WEATHER

INCLUDE TRAFFIC: EWR/HPN/JFK/LGA/TEB/ZBW DEPARTURES TO
AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN/LAS/LAX/MSP/OAK/PDX/PHX/SAN/SEA/SFO/SJC/SLC
FACILITIES INCLUDED: ZBW/ZNY
FLIGHT STATUS: ALL_FLIGHTS
VALID: ETD 131835 TO 140200
PROBABILITY OF EXTENSION: MODERATE

REMARKS: THIS ROUTING REQUIRES AREA NAVIGATION CAPABILITY.
*******THIS IS AN OFFLOAD/OPTIONAL ROUTE ONLY. AVAILABLE
FOR ANY FLIGHTS THAT WANT TO FILE AND AVOID ZNY/ZOB AREAS.

THIS ADVZY REPLACE ADVZY #048.****
ASSOCIATED RESTRICTIONS: 40 MIT UNTIL 2200Z, THEN 50 MIT
MODIFICATIONS: THIS ADVZY ADDS MSP TO THE REROUTE.
ROUTES:
ORIG DEST ROUTE
---- ---- -----
EWR JFK LGA TEB MSP GREKI V419 JUDDS CAM BUGSY
HPN POLTY YYB SSM EAU EAU8
ZBW MSP BUGSY POLTY YYB SSM EAU
EAU8

FROM:
ORIG ROUTE - ORIGIN SEGMENTS
---- -----------------------
EWR JFK LGA TEB HPN GREKI V419 JUDDS CAM BUGSY
POLTY YYB SSM J140 FAR
ZBW BUGSY POLTY YYB SSM J140 FAR


TO:
DEST ROUTE - DESTINATION SEGMENTS
---- ----------------------------
AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN FAR ABR BFF LANDR5
LAS FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE LUXOR2
LAX FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE J60 HEC
CIVET5
OAK FAR DPR J32 MLD J32 FMG ILA
RAIDR2
PDX FAR MLS PDT BONVL5
PHX FAR SNY ALS GUP BUNTR2
SAN FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE J60 BLD
TNP BARET4
SEA FAR DIK MLP GLASR7
SFO FAR DPR J32 MLD J32 FMG ILA PYE
GOLDN5
SJC FAR ABR RAP OCS DTA TPH CANDA
HYP5
SLC FAR DPR J32 BOY BPI LHO3

http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_other...31835+TO+140200&titleDate=07/13/08

This message depicts a re-route to MSP from various airports, and also from various airports to western destinations, with the common tie-in point being FAR.

[Edited 2008-07-15 05:50:35]

User currently offlineVikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3345 times:



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8):
OPNLguy From United States, joined Jun 1999, 12243 posts, RR: 70

Thank You! Very helpful response. You obviously are a dispatcher or ATC of some sort?

Thanks!



...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1248 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3306 times:



Quoting VikingA346 (Reply 9):
You obviously are a dispatcher or ATC of some sort?

Yeah, he's a dispatcher for some US Major carrier...



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineUnattendedBag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2310 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
To avoid weather? Seems like they added at least 30+ minutes by doing that route...

along with what OPNLguy stated (very informative), read this:

Flying North for the Summer

[Edited 2008-07-29 14:00:02]


Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2900 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR

Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 463 File size: 69kb


If anyone can enlighten me, it would be most appreciated.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineEbs757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 758 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2779 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12):
Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:

Talk about would you rather drive than fly...



Viva la Vida
User currently offlineCoolGuy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

I have a feeling it's generally not possible to go from New York to the west via the DC area during weather, because there's already too much traffic in that area. Or maybe the CO flight I was on just couldn't get that routing for some reason.

User currently offlineThemightydude From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2717 times:



Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 13):
Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:




If anyone can enlighten me, it would be most appreciated.

2H4

Maybe a maintenance flight?

Though I'm suprised that comair is coming out of Dayton, as CVG is Comairs main hub..not DAY.

But from the looks of it...I would say they just finished a heavy check or maintenance on that bird.

Especially since CVG is only about a 1:30-2:00 hour drive from DAY.



themightydude
User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2704 times:



Quoting CoolGuy (Reply 14):
I have a feeling it's generally not possible to go from New York to the west via the DC area during weather, because there's already too much traffic in that area. Or maybe the CO flight I was on just couldn't get that routing for some reason.

Yes they could for 2 reasons.
1) Planes from NYC are alreay at Altitude when crossing.
2) The in-trail spacing is as it should

He is my personal flight plan for UAL27 JFK-LAX

N0457F400 DIXIE V1 CYN J110 LARRI J230 AIR AIR254 RGERS DCT KI51O DCT PXV DCT KK42I DCT KK39A DCT KA36W DCT FTI J244 ZUN J6 DRK J231 TNP PDZ4

I go sorta south and pick up the J230 at LARRI which is about 100NM north of DCA and IAD. Then the J230 runs parallel to the J134. Plus planes already file RBV(Robinsville) off the DPs at JFK and fly down into the North tip of Virgina anyway.


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