Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19813 posts, RR: 56 Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3213 times:
Dispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1185 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3163 times:
My guess is convective weather (thunderstorms) near to NYC, specifically to the west.
Dragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3116 times:
Whats 30 minutes when they already departed 3 hours late? (based on the takeoff times over the previous flights).
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3080 times:
This was a pretty big line of weather. BWI was ground stopped, and nothing going west could depart for nearly 4 hours. It wasn't pretty.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
VikingA346 From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 500 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3021 times:
oh wow. Yea I"ve never seen taht big of a change to a FP.... Then again, I haven't looked al l that much. I just noticed by accident listening to liveatc.net and hearing AA 85 coming in real late at night when its supposed to get in around 6pm.
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
BWilliams From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 212 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2940 times:
Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 3): My guess is convective weather (thunderstorms) near to NYC, specifically to the west.
As a few people have already said, this is exactly it.
The route that United 15 took seems pretty common as a fallback from JFK to the west coast-- J95 up to Buffalo, over to Michigan, then somewhere west from there (in that case Green Bay), then pick up a straight western shot to the west coast.
...they not only avoided weather (at a cost of additional minutes of flight time) but they avoided a 4-5 hour delay awaiting the weather to clear the NYC area itself. This particular escape route is called the "CAN_7_WEST" and it's one of many alternative routings in ATCSCC's "playbook" of alternative routings to get from various A-to-B points within the USA when there's weather in between then.
On the day in question (a bad one, and I was working it too elsewhere on the east coast), many other flights were using the same basic route as did the AA flight. ATCSCC puts these routes out in advance, and the airline's dispatchers plans and file them.
(If this doesn't format properly, try the original at the link at the bottom)
INCLUDE TRAFFIC: EWR/HPN/JFK/LGA/TEB/ZBW DEPARTURES TO
AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN/LAS/LAX/MSP/OAK/PDX/PHX/SAN/SEA/SFO/SJC/SLC
FACILITIES INCLUDED: ZBW/ZNY
FLIGHT STATUS: ALL_FLIGHTS
VALID: ETD 131835 TO 140200
PROBABILITY OF EXTENSION: MODERATE
REMARKS: THIS ROUTING REQUIRES AREA NAVIGATION CAPABILITY.
*******THIS IS AN OFFLOAD/OPTIONAL ROUTE ONLY. AVAILABLE
FOR ANY FLIGHTS THAT WANT TO FILE AND AVOID ZNY/ZOB AREAS.
THIS ADVZY REPLACE ADVZY #048.****
ASSOCIATED RESTRICTIONS: 40 MIT UNTIL 2200Z, THEN 50 MIT
MODIFICATIONS: THIS ADVZY ADDS MSP TO THE REROUTE.
ROUTES:
ORIG DEST ROUTE
---- ---- -----
EWR JFK LGA TEB MSP GREKI V419 JUDDS CAM BUGSY
HPN POLTY YYB SSM EAU EAU8
ZBW MSP BUGSY POLTY YYB SSM EAU
EAU8
TO:
DEST ROUTE - DESTINATION SEGMENTS
---- ----------------------------
AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN FAR ABR BFF LANDR5
LAS FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE LUXOR2
LAX FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE J60 HEC
CIVET5
OAK FAR DPR J32 MLD J32 FMG ILA
RAIDR2
PDX FAR MLS PDT BONVL5
PHX FAR SNY ALS GUP BUNTR2
SAN FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE J60 BLD
TNP BARET4
SEA FAR DIK MLP GLASR7
SFO FAR DPR J32 MLD J32 FMG ILA PYE
GOLDN5
SJC FAR ABR RAP OCS DTA TPH CANDA
HYP5
SLC FAR DPR J32 BOY BPI LHO3
This message depicts a re-route to MSP from various airports, and also from various airports to western destinations, with the common tie-in point being FAR.
Dispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1185 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2812 times:
Quoting VikingA346 (Reply 9): You obviously are a dispatcher or ATC of some sort?
Yeah, he's a dispatcher for some US Major carrier...
UnattendedBag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2242 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2409 times:
Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter): To avoid weather? Seems like they added at least 30+ minutes by doing that route...
along with what OPNLguy stated (very informative), read this:
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2406 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:
If anyone can enlighten me, it would be most appreciated.
Ebs757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 757 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2285 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12): Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:
CoolGuy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 410 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2243 times:
I have a feeling it's generally not possible to go from New York to the west via the DC area during weather, because there's already too much traffic in that area. Or maybe the CO flight I was on just couldn't get that routing for some reason.
Themightydude From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 28 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2223 times:
Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 13): Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:
If anyone can enlighten me, it would be most appreciated.
2H4
Maybe a maintenance flight?
Though I'm suprised that comair is coming out of Dayton, as CVG is Comairs main hub..not DAY.
But from the looks of it...I would say they just finished a heavy check or maintenance on that bird.
Especially since CVG is only about a 1:30-2:00 hour drive from DAY.
AAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2210 times:
Quoting CoolGuy (Reply 14): I have a feeling it's generally not possible to go from New York to the west via the DC area during weather, because there's already too much traffic in that area. Or maybe the CO flight I was on just couldn't get that routing for some reason.
Yes they could for 2 reasons.
1) Planes from NYC are alreay at Altitude when crossing.
2) The in-trail spacing is as it should
I go sorta south and pick up the J230 at LARRI which is about 100NM north of DCA and IAD. Then the J230 runs parallel to the J134. Plus planes already file RBV(Robinsville) off the DPs at JFK and fly down into the North tip of Virgina anyway.
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