Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed  
User currently offlineAileron11 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 183 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

I did a search before i posted did not find anything sorry if i repeated. I work at ewr and i noticed that when all the airbus comes in from overseas then they park them on the hard stands the flaps and slats are left deployed i noticed it first on TAP thought it was mx issue then i saw LUF,SAS doing the same thing does anybody know what the reason is thanks.


Jersey Lou
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVgnAtl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8049 times:

You might get a quicker answer in the tech ops forum on this. Do they do this just on turns or also during RON's?


Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineAileron11 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7944 times:

They do this both rons and turns, must be reason for it seems kind weired all of them are doing it.


Jersey Lou
User currently offlineAircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1633 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7691 times:

Would they simply save energy by doing so?

User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 874 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7621 times:

Are the flaps left in landing setting or takeoff setting? (takeoff settings requires less flaps than landing)

Might be the same way the do on the CRJ-200's, it's about reducing the use of the system...ie one less movement of the flaps system...instead of retracting fully, they just retract to the takeoff setting for the next flight.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7617 times:

Is there a Mx check scheduled out there,requiring Flap/slat extension.If so,they could be extended & power thereafter switched off,so the checks can be carried out later on in the day.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMichi From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7552 times:

What is the OAT in EWR?
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.
 hot 

Regards,
Michi


User currently offlineAileron11 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7438 times:



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings

Is this poor design from airbus or just something overlooked, seems like unnecessary procedure for expensive airplane



Jersey Lou
User currently offlineWn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 998 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7371 times:



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.

Huh, well that explains a question I've been wanting to ask for a while...I noticed lately that most of the Airbus a/c coming into PHX leave the flaps extended. I figured it was something to do with the heat.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineFlexo From St. Helena, joined Mar 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7210 times:



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.

Is this true for all Airbus aircraft or just a specific model?


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1439 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7061 times:



Quoting 777WT (Reply 4):
Might be the same way the do on the CRJ-200's, it's about reducing the use of the system...ie one less movement of the flaps system...instead of retracting fully, they just retract to the takeoff setting for the next flight.

That's not the reason for Some CRJ's leaving the flaps set at 15. When the first few aircraft came off the production line, there was a problem with the flaps warping. An AD came out mandating the flaps be retracted after landing, then reset to 15 so they can be inspected for warping during the walk around. Bombardier finally fixed it, and operators of later model CRJs don't have to comply with it.

That's why you don't see PSA, Pinnacle, etc leaving flaps at 15 (maybe it's 8) while operators of the older models (Comair, Mesa, Air Willy) still do.

Maybe a CRJ pilot or mechanic will chime in on the subject and give more accurate info than I have. My info is second hand from a friend who hasn't flown one in a while.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7008 times:



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.

Which types are you referring to.
Out here there is no such action apart for Mx work as mentioned above & the OATs can get between 30-45degC.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3932 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6931 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Which types are you referring to.

Read the thread title MEL, its Airbus.
Here in ARN we practically never get Plus 30, so I have never seen it on an A320 series. I did have a QR A319 three weeks ago that arrived with Wing Bleed leak and Wing antice faults. The Capt apologised saying he had forgotten to leave the slats out on the ground at DOH.

But I regularly see A310 and A300 freighters parked all day with the slats out. There must be anther reason for this?


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6766 times:



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 12):
Read the thread title MEL, its Airbus.

I did.....But is it A318/330/340....because the rest of airbus types [A300/310/319/320/321] I've seen out here don't do that in high OATs.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

At GF our procedures are to extend the flaps to 1+F as well when temperatures reach +30C

So that means almost 90% of the time in the gulf!
I heard it had to do with the expansion of the surface area's as well next to those bleed air overheat warnings.

Quoting Aileron11 (Reply 7):
Is this poor design from airbus or just something overlooked, seems like unnecessary procedure for expensive airplane

Maybe the other airplane designers did not discover this issue yet!
Or...they figured the Airbus wings are British, so it's meant to go bust pretty easely!  duck 


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2828 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

Intersetingly, I've noticed TP's A32X fleet has been doing the same recently. Slats deployed, flaps 15 or thereabouts. Seems T/O config, weird to see it while parked at the gate.


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6051 times:

Is this Temperature warranting Flap extension an SOP for all airlines.
I've checked with the few A320 series operators out here & none follow this procedure,so I was wondering why,as out here the OAT can be between 27-40degC in the day.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8646 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

From the A320 FCOM

"FLAPS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RETRACT
· Set the FLAP lever to position 0.
· If the approach was made in icing conditions, or if the runway was contaminated with
slush or snow, do not retract the flaps and slats until after engine shutdown and after
the ground crew has confirmed that flaps and slats are clear of obstructing ice.
· On ground, hot weather conditions may cause overheating to be detected around the
bleed ducts in the wings, resulting in "AIR L(R) WING LEAK" warnings. Such warnings
may be avoided during transit by keeping the slats in Configuration 1 when the OAT
is above 30°C."

Later aircraft have a modified system, they do not get this. Airlines operating a mixed fleet of modified and unmodified aircraft will ofter use the unmodified procedure across the whole fleet for standardization of procedures.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (5 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5989 times:



Quoting 777WT (Reply 4):
Might be the same way the do on the CRJ-200's, it's about reducing the use of the system...ie one less movement of the flaps system...instead of retracting fully, they just retract to the takeoff setting for the next flight.

No the reason is described below

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 10):
That's not the reason for Some CRJ's leaving the flaps set at 15. When the first few aircraft came off the production line, there was a problem with the flaps warping. An AD came out mandating the flaps be retracted after landing, then reset to 15 so they can be inspected for warping during the walk around. Bombardier finally fixed it, and operators of later model CRJs don't have to comply with it.

The flap setting is 8 or 20 as there is no flap 15 on the -200. To make it clear, Bombardier never fixed the problem on the -200 (or if they did not to the satisfaction of the FAA) as every CRJ requires the flaps to be inspected before each flight for warping. Further if the aircraft doesn't have skew detection installed and you discover you need flaps 20 setting for take off you must go outside again and re-inspect the flaps once they have been extended. (The FO hates this when you tell he/she that they have to go back outside again) The CR7s and CR9s don't have this problem as Bombardier completely re-did the flap design on these aircraft. They added slats to the CR7 and CR9 instead of the straight leading edge the CRJ has. I don't mind it though, without slats we come screaming in on approaches. Typically only 747s can keep up or catch us.

There is also another AD that came out in 2007 (if my memory serves me correct) after a CRJ operator had a flap fail with flaps stuck at 45 degrees. They then had to fly to an alternate in that configuration and almost ran out of gas because of the drag.

The AD says you can't extend your flaps out of zero unless the RVR (precision) or RVR and ceiling (non precision) is confirmed to be at or above the minima for the approach in use and that they can be reasonably expected to remain that way. An emergency or abnormal situation doesn't have to meet this rule. Another way the operator can get around it is to provide enough fuel so that the aircraft can fly with the flaps fully extended to a suitable alternate and land with 1,000 lbs of gas onboard. That is a lot of gas and I can't think of any airline that uses that exemption in their flight planning.


A little OT I know, but Zeke did a good job and already explained the reason for the Airbus flap situation. I thought I would clear up the CRJ one.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Flaps Deployed Too Far On Takeoff? posted Wed Apr 25 2007 02:22:44 by ZooTV
Why Airbus For Start-ups? posted Mon Nov 13 2006 18:27:42 by AirWillie6475
Comar CRJ-200...Why Not Retracting Flaps? posted Thu Aug 12 2004 00:54:44 by Ngr
Airbus A320 Flaps/THS On Mcdu posted Wed Jan 22 2003 09:38:01 by Vrandar
Why Doesn't Airbus Put Winglets On The A306? posted Sat May 24 2008 18:50:29 by FalconBird
Why Keep The Gear Down So Long? posted Wed Dec 19 2007 22:41:35 by DL767captain
Airbus Flaps Vs. Boeing Flaps posted Tue Aug 21 2007 21:29:04 by UAL747
Why Do Airbus Tails Have A Bump On The Bottom? posted Sun Apr 29 2007 18:49:29 by Kaitak744
Why Not Fully Extend Flaps When Landing? posted Mon Feb 26 2007 03:46:10 by Theflcowboy
Why (OH) CRJ Have Flaps Down All The Time? posted Sat Jan 20 2007 21:37:04 by KLM672
Airbus A350 Flaps posted Mon Jun 25 2007 05:13:16 by Eaglewarrior
Flaps Deployed Too Far On Takeoff? posted Wed Apr 25 2007 02:22:44 by ZooTV
Why Airbus For Start-ups? posted Mon Nov 13 2006 18:27:42 by AirWillie6475
Comar CRJ-200...Why Not Retracting Flaps? posted Thu Aug 12 2004 00:54:44 by Ngr
Airbus A320 Flaps/THS On Mcdu posted Wed Jan 22 2003 09:38:01 by Vrandar
Why Flaps On Airbus Dont Have A Gap Like Others posted Mon Aug 17 2009 00:06:51 by AirIndia

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format