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Bird Injestion - How Significant Is It?  
User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 717 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6199 times:

Hi all,


I have a couple of questions on bird engine injestion as a friend of mine was delayed for 36 hours last week after this happened (Due to no other aircraft being available).

Brief story, my friend had just taken off, in a 737, and reportedly, two birds were injested into an engine. Bangs and flashes followed and an immediate return to the airport followed..

This brings me to a couple of questions as my friend couldn't answer these as he isnt an enthusiast or similar and basically took little notice or understanding of what was happening.

1) Do bird injestions ever happen and the flight can continue, if so what percentage are these less serious strikes? (is it 50/50 that you would need to land for example)

2) If the flights generally have to land after a bird injestion, what happens, if in the unlikely event, you get one in each engine? seems pretty fateful to me.

3) Would this flight that my friend was on have to unload fuel weight before landing? He said they went straight back but it would be loaded for a 3.5 hour flight.

Thanks in advance for your input a.netters.


There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYWG747 From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

1) That chances of continuing flight are very slim. Once you have an one of your two engine go out, I beleive you try and land as soon as possible.

2) If you get a bird in each engine you are landing with no engines. But if that were too happen, you better buy a lotto ticket.

3) As for your third question I really don't know. One would think you would need ot burn some of the fuel off, or dump it.


User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6181 times:



Quoting YWG747 (Reply 1):
That chances of continuing flight are very slim. Once you have an one of your two engine go out, I beleive you try and land as soon as possible.

Yeah, my question here was perhaps not so clear, i meant could you get a bird injested into engine and no significant engine damage occurring so the flight continues as normal. I wonder on a similar vein if there have been such accidents which never even got noticed by the crew.



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6182 times:

1) It depends. If you have a compressor stall.. yea, you'll know it and land. If you have no issues, the crew may not know until they land and the next crew does a walk around and finds the evidance.

2) If it stalls out both engines you're in a world of hurt....

3) It depends on what you're flying on and what your Take Off weight and Max landing weight are.

Quoting NEMA (Reply 2):
i meant could you get a bird injested into engine and no significant engine damage occurring so the flight continues as normal

Actually pretty common. With newer High By Pass engines its pretty hard to get the object into the actual core engine...

[Edited 2008-08-12 10:33:40]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineSilverComet From Mauritius, joined Apr 2007, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
Do bird injestions ever happen and the flight can continue, if so what percentage are these less serious strikes? (is it 50/50 that you would need to land for example)

In general, if a bird got ingested into an engine, you would want to land back at least to have the engine inspected. Chances are there will be some damage. Even if you suspect minimal damage it is much safer to do that than to take it with you to destination and risk greater problems (engine fail, parts flying out of your engine and damaging other critical systems etc.) enroute.

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
If the flights generally have to land after a bird injestion, what happens, if in the unlikely event, you get one in each engine? seems pretty fateful to me.

Just as fateful and unlikely as having all your engines fail on you on takeoff. You cannot plan for absolutely all possibilities or you would never take off. I think the probability of that happening is so low that you don't account for it. Besides, the geometry of the aircraft also protects at least one engine. I have experienced a few of instances of flocks of birds crossing in front of me on takeoff and landing (including one birdstrike) and also seen some footage of it happening to other aircraft and it seems to me that the birds are always flying more or less perpendicular to the direction of travel of the aircraft, never head on. Which means that the fuselage always protects one of the engines. That's the way it seems to me anyway.

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
Would this flight that my friend was on have to unload fuel weight before landing? He said they went straight back but it would be loaded for a 3.5 hour flight.

It depends on what weight the aircraft was at when it took off. In general, if the aircraft has to land and it's above its Maximum Landing Weight (and unless you're burning or other similar situation where you need to land right then) then you would want to jettison fuel before coming back to land. I have never flown a 737 so I don't have any typical MTOW/MLW figures or if the 37 has fuel jettison capability but I do know that overweight landings are possible. Maybe the crew opted to do that or maybe the aircraft wasn't even above its MLW (my guess).

[Edited 2008-08-12 10:52:46]

[Edited 2008-08-12 10:54:28]

User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6168 times:

If I sucked in a bird, I'd be returning to the airport. Chances are that engine is pretty messed up if tweety went through the hot section. Flying around on one bad engine is just inviting something bad to happen to the good one. Get on the ground where everybody is safe.

Narrowbody aircraft typically don't have a dump option. There are typically overweight landing checklists in the Quick Reference Handbook which will outline greater distances, speeds and lengths required. Usually an overweight landing will result in a lengthy inspection of the aircraft structures after the event.



DMI
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6106 times:



Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
) Do bird injestions ever happen and the flight can continue, if so what percentage are these less serious strikes? (is it 50/50 that you would need to land for example)

On a modern high bypass engine probably 90pc of engine bird strikes are a non event. It is extremely unlikely that the bird will enter the power generator. It usually hits a fan blade and goes out the bypass duct. Fan blades are pretty strong and it would need a big bird to do damage.

If the bird goes into the IP compressor (or booster for the Americans) then it still depends how big it is. Small birds can produce a smell in the aircraft!!, or they may damage compressor blades. If the crew notice engine parameters shifting then they will report it and maintenance will do boroscopes to see what happened.

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
2) If the flights generally have to land after a bird injestion, what happens, if in the unlikely event, you get one in each engine? seems pretty fateful to me.

There have been aircraft crashes caused by bird ingestion.


User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

I've often wonder if anyone on a.net was a passenger on a flight I worked between Memphis and Houston during June of '07... we hit a 30 to 40 lb hawk directly into the #1... ended up diverting and landing in Shreveport... if you were one of my passengers, would love to hear what you thought of the whole thing...

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
1) Do bird injestions ever happen and the flight can continue, if so what percentage are these less serious strikes? (is it 50/50 that you would need to land for example).

Yes, depends on if you know you hit something or not... a tiny bird hit on final for instance, you wouldn't notice, when I hit the huge hawk we were climbing and passing around 6000' just starting a turn... it hit and the capt. and I heard the thud.. but there was no "feeling" of anything odd, no eicas indications, and the plane flew great, even with the engine severely damaged... (we didn't even know how badly the engine was damaged until mx checked it out)

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
2) If the flights generally have to land after a bird injestion, what happens, if in the unlikely event, you get one in each engine? seems pretty fateful to me.

Again, we didn't even realize how badly it was damaged, mx (when we talked to them in the air) actually left the decision to us whether to continue to Houston or divert... we decided after some discussion and progressing with the flight, that a diversion would be the best course of action as a "just in case" kinda thing (we had been noticing subtle degradation on the engines performance as we continued)... we had no clue how badly it was actually hurt (engine ran great... it shut down when we shut it down after landing.. and this was after it had lost parts or bent sections of every single fan blade, lost compressor blades, bent some compressor blades enough to be flush with the blade next to them, etc....)... from accounts of a friend that actually worked for airport Ops. at SHV (who was by the runway when we came in) said it was the loudest he has heard one of our planes.. sounded like a buzz saw from the engine... so audibly it was different, behaviorally it was doin' really quite well! That being said, we did know it had been hit, and from what we knew was working, but didn't know how long it would last, so we took precautions just in case it did die on us....



Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
3) Would this flight that my friend was on have to unload fuel weight before landing? He said they went straight back but it would be loaded for a 3.5 hour flight.

I dunno about the 737.. but my aircraft (ERJ-145) we can't dump fuel... and in the situation that the engine "may" die... you don't want to just circle to get weight down... you go ahead and make those tough decisions we are required to make as a crew... which is more important... needless to say, we touched down in Shreveport 1300 lbs over MGLW... (mx inspection was not necessary due to vertical speed at touch down...)



On a complete side note, MX replaced the engine and we repositioned the aircraft back to Houston the next morning...

[Edited 2008-08-12 14:56:20]


"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2574 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

The last bird ingestion I've seen was about a month ago. 737NG, the crew never reported it. We found it on the nghtly walk. Like most have said nothing went into the core. We did have some significant blade damage. Two were easliy in limits, but the inital hit blade was bent pretty good. It might have been in limits, but it was so close to the limit we changed the blade.

I don't think the crew even knew they sucked it in.

The worst I've ever seen was a ANG C-130 that flew through a flock of geese on final. They bent a couple of props, dented the leading edge, broken windscreen, and even had one stuck in the APU inlet. The pilot said he thought they were being attacked by bowling balls.

[Edited 2008-08-12 16:56:05]

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

As I understand it, losing an engine on a twin is an automatic emergency. So you're landing "as soon as practical". However as some have mentioned if you don't notice the bird strike. Well if you don't notice it why would you land?  Wink


I love this video:



Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):

3) Would this flight that my friend was on have to unload fuel weight before landing? He said they went straight back but it would be loaded for a 3.5 hour flight.



Quoting SilverComet (Reply 4):
. I have never flown a 737 so I don't have any typical MTOW/MLW figures or if the 37 has fuel jettison capability

No dumping facilities on the 737. In fact I don't know of any modern narrowbodies with fuel dumping capability.

All airliners can land at all weights up to MTOW. Even 747s. However you wouldn't want to do that unless an engine was on fire or something. Landing overweight, especially in a full long haul widebody, carries some risk. Better to dump, or barring that burn off (by flying around) the fuel if possible. Also landing overweight requires an inspection.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19954 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5996 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
As I understand it, losing an engine on a twin is an automatic emergency.

As I understand it, even losing an engine on a 747 is an emergency... or at least an indication to land at your earliest convenience.

So here's my question: what happened in that cabin and cockpit when the birdstrike happened? I'm sure a bunch of alarms went off in the cockpit (engine performance not equal to commanded, etc.) but would the plane suddenly yaw? Roll?


User currently offlineFr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5499 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

Birds go through the core all the time. Most of the time, the flight crew never knows it happened. During the spring and fall, we see bird strikes almost every night. Sometimes they go through the core, most times not.

Most maintenance programs require a borescope after a core ingestion. It's usually a progressive inspection. You check the first few stages of the compressor, if no damage found, no further required.

In 22 years, I've only seen one bird strike cause damage to an engine that did not have external signs of damage or a pilot report. In other words, only once, in hundreds of times, did the borescope result in a finding that required further evaluation.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5942 times:



Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
2) If the flights generally have to land after a bird injestion, what happens, if in the unlikely event, you get one in each engine? seems pretty fateful to me.

It's not a given that the birdstrike will shut down the engine. If the parameters start going flakey the crew will likely do a commanded in-flight shutdown. However, if both engines got hit I doubt they'd purposely shut down both engines...better to limp home on at least one that's dying than have nothing.

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):

3) Would this flight that my friend was on have to unload fuel weight before landing? He said they went straight back but it would be loaded for a 3.5 hour flight.

On a 737, maximum landing weight is the same as maximum takeoff weight, so no problems. It's not considered an overweight landing. As far as I know, this is true of all transport aircraft that don't have a fuel dump system.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
All airliners can land at all weights up to MTOW. Even 747s. However you wouldn't want to do that unless an engine was on fire or something.

Physically true, but you may be way out of certified limits on aircraft that do have a fuel dump system. If you don't have a fuel dump system, you're usually certified to land at MTOW.

Tom.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5926 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
As I understand it, even losing an engine on a 747 is an emergency... or at least an indication to land at your earliest convenience.

I have only the posts of our quad pilots to go by but as I understand it is not an emergency.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
However, if both engines got hit I doubt they'd purposely shut down both engines...better to limp home on at least one that's dying than have nothing.

Unless you're BMI.  duck 



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePlaneWasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
I love this video:

Good one!

This is rather nasty:


[Edited 2008-08-12 22:00:45]

User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5908 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
As I understand it, even losing an engine on a 747 is an emergency... or at least an indication to land at your earliest convenience

No, depending on circumstances we may elect to continue to our destination or some suitable intermediate point. British Airways did it with a planeload of pax on a 400. Losing two is always an emergency.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
So here's my question: what happened in that cabin and cockpit when the birdstrike happened? I'm sure a bunch of alarms went off in the cockpit (engine performance not equal to commanded, etc.) but would the plane suddenly yaw? Roll?

Probably felt the compressor stalls and saw a rising or fluctuating EGT, N1 variations, and possibly N2 variation as well. If the aircraft is equipped with vibration gauges you would start to see them climb. If there was damage to any of the engine driven accessories, the related systems would react accordingly. There were probably minor yaw excursions until the engine was shut down. The engine would not be secured without the concurrence of two pilots (there may be an IRO in the cockpit). There might be an alarm for the oil pressure falling as the engine shuts down. Someone checked out on type might be able to give more detail.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5911 times:



Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 14):

This is rather nasty:

As Eddie Izzard says: "It's not a bird strike. It's an engine suck..." At no point were those seagulls actively aiming for the engines.  Wink

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 15):
(there may be an IRO in the cockpit).

A who?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5903 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
A who?

An International Relief Officer. Basically a relief pilot for long flights. Some companies have them sit in the jumpseat for take off and landing.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5901 times:

I see thanks. My guess is that the "International" part is a US term. No European country besides Russia has anything but international flights long enough to warrant relief pilots. No Asian country either for that matter.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5895 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 18):
My guess is that the "International" part is a US term.

I think I first heard it from an Asian carrier. But you are right, most countries aren't large to warrant a relief pilot. You might see it on some flights from the Eastern US to Hawaii or Anchorage.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5866 times:

It depends on the Type of bird & the Type of Engine [high/low bypass],depending on the location of the strike.
Many times the birds are small enough to pass through the Bypass section of the High bypass engine & only Indications would be a smell in the AC ducts to the crew.

In case a Bird strike is reported.Mx action as per approved schedule is followed & if all items are within limits the aircraft is declared airworthy & back to service.

Low bypass engines have chances of more serious damage also the damaged blade would need a shop visit to rectify,unlike a high bypass fan blade damage in the Bypass section.

The Advantages of night ops is that the Bird hit chances are less compared to day.

regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5849 times:



Quoting Lowrider (Reply 19):

I think I first heard it from an Asian carrier. But you are right, most countries aren't large to warrant a relief pilot. You might see it on some flights from the Eastern US to Hawaii or Anchorage.

Ah yes. Forgot about the colonies.  Wink



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5804 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):

On a 737, maximum landing weight is the same as maximum takeoff weight, so no problems. It's not considered an overweight landing. As far as I know, this is true of all transport aircraft that don't have a fuel dump system.

I don't personally know about 737's so I can't comment on that part... but as far as all transport aircraft w/o the ability to dump fuel... that couldn't be further from the truth... If it were you would never see a plane circle to burn fuel off... furthermore, just read my prior post.. In my incident we landed 1300 lbs overweight... I can assure you the aircraft is transport category.. that day we had 50 passengers and 1 lap child... (a full boat for our 145)



"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineSilverComet From Mauritius, joined Apr 2007, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5763 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 12):
On a 737, maximum landing weight is the same as maximum takeoff weight, so no problems. It's not considered an overweight landing. As far as I know, this is true of all transport aircraft that don't have a fuel dump system.

I used to fly the A319. It did not have a fuel dump system. And the MLW was not the same as the MTOW and I assure you if you landed at anything above MLW it was considered an overweight landing.


User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5754 times:



Quoting NEMA:
Bird Injestion - How Significant Is It?

I would like to point out that although a single birdstrike is usually not terminal for the average airliner, the experience is pretty significant for the bird.



Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
25 Point8six : Depends on the size of the bird! A bird-ingested engine shutdown is not an emergency, nor does it require "land at the nearest suitable airport".(B747
26 HAWK21M : Some hard boned structured birds like the vulture are equally destructive. regds MEL
27 Tdscanuck : I got some bad data...the 737 has the same restriction. The A319 actually has a smaller gap between MTOW and MLW than the 737NG. Should have checked
28 NEMA : Hmmm, that mention i guess was from the BMI incident at my local airport, (hence my a.net username), and next week i will be flying with BMI. As for
29 Starlionblue : Meh. Not to worry. If we avoided airlines that had crashed because of bone headed mistakes at some point few of us would fly at all.
30 SEPilot : One of the big worries for GA pilots is birds building nests in engines (they rarely do it in flight, however.) I had it happen when I was only on the
31 HAWK21M : Common occurances on the B737 rudder hinge balance weight area of the classic,if not flown for more than 24hrs. regds MEL
32 JoseKMLB : Well I saw a first for me at the airport over here at night. We had a CRJ200(ASA) land at night around 2100 about a month ago and had a bat strike th
33 Kris : This has probably been asked before - but wouldn't it be possible to have a mesh in front of the engine to stop any bird/FOD ingestions? Every time I
34 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : Interesting idea. However at the speeds we are talking about such a mesh would either: - Be too weak to stop the bird, at which point you have bird A
35 Kris : But surely slices of bird would do less damage that the whole thing, which would rely on the fan to do the mincing!
36 XT6Wagon : yah modern high bypass engines are very good at chucking even metal and other not very engine friendly stuff past the core and thus with minimal dama
37 Starlionblue : That's fair, but that would mean massively strong and heavy mesh. Also you've got a pretty good mincing system already, the fan.
38 Post contains images 2H4 : Ah, but we're getting one step closer with the P-8A.... 2H4
39 SlamClick : I recall two such incidents but can't give much info. Seems like there was a Lear at ATL and an Electra in New England somewhere but beyond that, I d
40 Point8six : SlamClick - yes, well-spotted! Just a small piece of "finger-trouble"!
41 SlamClick : I suspected as much. The dreaded FFS. (fat finger syndrome)
42 Post contains links Litz : check this thread : http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/220562 for some more information ... The highest reported birdstrike
43 Tdscanuck : That's basically what the inlet guide vanes on the JT8's do...they at least slice the squishy FOD into pieces. They also help mechanics just lose lim
44 HAWK21M : Guess Unlucky or maybe the Birds have a hidden agenda against you....Ever went bird hunting in the past Out here...Just before Sunrise or after sunse
45 CURLYHEADBOY : The only air crash of which I witnessed the immediate aftermath in my life (though from a distance) was at the airport close to my home (LIN). A Lear
46 HAWK21M : you got to have real tough luck to encounter such a situation.....Not Impossible though but very rare. regds MEL
47 ThePinnacleKid : I'm taking hawk in the not so literal confining definition but in the other variation (#2)... 1. any of various accipitrine birds having short, round
48 Post contains links Wingscrubber : I was told a story once about a bird strike test using rolls-royces' 'chicken cannon'. I googled 'rolls royce, frozen chicken', and found this account
49 Post contains links Viscount724 : The only two E-3 AWACS hull losses to date werre both caused by bird strikes on takeoff. USAF E-3 at Elmendorf AFB, Alaska in 1995 (all 24 aboard fat
50 Post contains links Atlturbine : This video says it all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2OS2pwrZTI
51 Don81603 : I noticed the a/c yawing a bit on landing, and some movement of the rudder to the left. I'm assuming you wouldn't use the thrust reverser on just one
52 Readytotaxi : Damn, I was gonna say that.
53 Post contains images Atlturbine : Here are a couple pics of a bird strike on a Challanger... you can see the damage that was done. Prelim NTSB report: Operator: Boeing Co April 2008 /
54 CURLYHEADBOY : Just WOW! What really amazes me is that all the displays (except the one that was hit) and other avionics appear still powered despite bird guts squi
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