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Airline Pilots Wearing Clip-on Ties  
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10533 times:

Are some pilots required to wear clip-on ties for safety or efficiency reasons?

Do pilots wear a clip-on tie in lieu of a standard necktie if they do not know how to tie one, while others feel it is less constrictive than a standard necktie?

Is it a standard issue as a precaution against the possibility of pilots being strangled or pulled by a standard tied necktie?

Are they worn for safety, but also for ease of application and removal?

Did some airlines requiring pilots wear a necktie have encountered problems with pilots tying their ties improperly? If so, did these airlines implement clip-on ties to eliminate this problem?

Do some pilots either do not know how, or do not feel comfortable, tying a standard necktie?

Are pilots mocked for wearing a clip-on tie in lieu of a standard necktie, the implication being that refusal to learn how to tie a "proper" tie reflects a wider lack of sophistication?

Because child-sized ties are almost always clip-ons, do some airlines consider clip-ons juvenile?


Airliners.net of the Future
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10535 times:

Are these serious questions?

User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2572 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10504 times:

That's a lot of questions about a clothing accessory! Big grin

All the airlines I've flown for merely state that you must wear a tie that matches the color of the uniform. Occasionally an airline will allow other ties, such as the American Flag tie I see a lot of Southwest pilots wearing, or seasonal ties such as 'tasteful' Christmas ties. (My Xmas tie taste usually runs in the direction of The Grinch, but that's another story  Smile ) Whether it is a clip-on or regular doesn't matter, and I've never heard or read anything from the airlines about them being a safety hazard.

Most airlines also simply state that your uniform must look neat and presentable. If you are clumsy enough that you can't tie a tie, you buy a clip-on. And no, they aren't 'mocked' if they do wear one.

I've seen several pilots wear clip-ons, and they are the ones that usually like to take it off once the cockpit door is closed, and unbutton the collar to be more comfortable. So really the choice is just a personal one and not mandated by the company or peer pressure.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5160 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10507 times:

At my airline, we are given the option of either.

I prefer a regular tie as it simply looks better. I can't imagine anyone capable of flying an airplane would have troubles tying a tie though  Smile

Our female pilots also have the option of wearing a regular tie with regular shirt, or a blouse/ascot combination.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10460 times:

I wear a clip on tie. Nobody really cares what kind of tie you wear, much less even really knows. All it has to do is meet the requirements of our uniform policy... correct color and be of neat appearance. Clip on, zipper, or regular, doesn't matter.

I wear the clip on tie for two reasons, its ease of use (I usually take it off when relaxing in the crewroom, on long legs, etc) and the fact that... although this may come as a surprise to previous posters... I am horrible at tying ties.


User currently offlineSLUAviator From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10460 times:

I wish I could wear a clip-on, but I am a tall guy and I have not been able to find one that is the right length. Regular ties for me until I can find the right length clip-on!


What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
User currently offlineXJET From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 492 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 10446 times:

I wear a zipper tie. I wear it so I can easily take it off in the cockpit once the door is closed, and it is more comfortable that a clip on tie. My company only requires that you wear a black tie while in the "public eye".

User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9118 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10130 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

normal tie for us.

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17185 posts, RR: 66
Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10065 times:

I'll try not to grind my teeth at the fashion implications of clip-ons, which are almost as bad as wearing socks with sandals.

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Because child-sized ties are almost always clip-ons, do some airlines consider clip-ons juvenile?

Plenty of non-clip-on child ties out there. I wore a normal tie with my school uniform, at 12, for example. My schoolmates had done so from the age of 5-6 or so.

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Do pilots wear a clip-on tie in lieu of a standard necktie if they do not know how to tie one, while others feel it is less constrictive than a standard necktie?

Tying a tie isn't hard to learn, and seeing as pilots wear one all the time they get plenty of practice. If you're really too lazy to learn you can get someone else to make the know, and just loosen to take off, then tighten to put on again. No need to undo the knot.

Having said that, if someone takes the tie off and puts it on often, a clip on is a neat solution.

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Are pilots mocked for wearing a clip-on tie in lieu of a standard necktie, the implication being that refusal to learn how to tie a "proper" tie reflects a wider lack of sophistication?

While I might think that clip-ons are a bit of a faux pas, I am a total snob. I would think pilots have better things to do.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1652 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9987 times:



Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Are some pilots required to wear clip-on ties for safety or efficiency reasons?

It is an option at my company to wear a clip on tie for air ambulance. When we carry stretchers onto the Lear we have the patient cross their arms but sometimes if there is a wobble of the stretcher when we are loading, there is a possibility of them grabbing the first thing that they see and it is usually a dangling tie. Most of our guys try to get away with not wearing ties for this reason but I think it looks sloppy and they get yelled at.

I wear a zipper tie because it's easy and it was only like $12 or something like that at Tally-Ho.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

Safety reason? I once debated that with a good friend who preferred clip-ons. I argued that if he ran a lathe I would buy the safety argument. I mean honestly, picture this:
It is believed that the pilot's necktie caught on the control yoke and before he could free it, the power seat experienced a runaway-aft, pulling back on the control column until the airplane stalled.
The final argument as far as I am conerned came during upgrade training on the DC-9. In the "landing gear" module the instructor related a story about a DC-9 crew that could not get a "safe" gear indication. The first officer went back to verify maingear position through the periscope in the wheel well. As the packs were still on there was considerable positive cabin pressure and when he lifted the periscope eyepiece his clip-on tie came loose and was sucked out through the opening. It landed on the mirror and rendered the periscope inoperable. Clip-ons are therefore less safe?

Pilots wear clip-on ties for exactly the same reason other people do - some area of discomfort regarding neckties in general. A clip-on is seen by these persons as less confining or easier or even a form of protest. The guy who takes off his tie as soon as the wedding is over - that's the guy in the clip-on.

As a matter of personal choice I wore knotted ties from youth; college, military, airline, any place a tie was appropriate. No passenger ever saw me with my tie loosened, not even from the terminal windows. I did loosen it and undo the top button when it was warm up there but never where a passenger could see me.

It was quite common for pilots to leave it clipped to one side of their shirt collar but that just isn't me. On the other hand, I did wear a tie with a short-sleeve uniform shirt without any reservations. A pilot's arms would wear out shirtsleeves against the armrests twice as fast as the shirt would normally wear out. Believe me you will go through a lot of uniform shirts during your career anyway, no point in accelerating the process. Add to that, uniform shirts of any quality are not always easy to find.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17185 posts, RR: 66
Reply 11, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9962 times:

I have always found that people who say clip-ons are less constricting are just not used to wearing a tie, or have shirt collars that are too small. Here's a hint: If you can't go all day wearing a buttoned shirt and tie, you need a bigger collar. Having said that, I have often loosened my tie a bit when going home at the end of the day. No need for a clip-on. Just loosen the knot and it's a cloth necklace. Make sure you unbutton the top button or you'll look like a total dork.

The whole militant anti-tie camp baffles me. If you are required to wear one for work, shut up and wear it! It's not like the company is forcing you to wear nipple clamps or something. Having been forced to wear a clip-on (the gas station I worked for had no other regulation model) I must say there was no noticeable difference. I tied it the usual way every time in silent protest.  Wink

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
The guy who takes off his tie as soon as the wedding is over - that's the guy in the clip-on.

Obviously at the wedding you untie the self-tied bow tie and let it hang in a cool fashion from your collar. Big grin Sadly, I must confess that I cheat and carry an untied self-tie model in my pocket to replace the pre-tied one around my neck. Never did practice enough to learn how to tie a bow tie.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
A pilot's arms would wear out shirtsleeves against the armrests twice as fast as the shirt would normally wear out.

My wife has the same problem with her suit jackets. She has taken to getting suede patches sown on at the elbows, earning her the nickname of "The Professor".  Smile But I guess that's the reason for the patches on some models in the first place.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9911 times:

In the British tradion licenced aircraft maintenance engineers (LAMEs) wear white shirts (pilot style, depending on the company some times with epaulettes similar to a flight engineer), black creased pants and black safety boots together with a necktie. This is usually a clip on due to safety reasons (getting caught in machinery). If the work becomes dirty, a boiler suit will get over everything.
This kind of uniform btw. is very usefull especially when working as a "flying spanner" in certain countries in Africa and Asia. There often security guards, police or immigration officers don't believe that a person is a crew member if he doesn't wear a uniform. I know a British guy, who got arrested once while doing a walk-around inspection on the plane he was flying in wearing jeans and a t-shirt and spent a week in Chinese prison because the cops didn't believe him that he belonged to the crew.
I have heard similar stories, like suddenly looking into the business end of an AK-47 while working on the apron from other colleagues.

Jan

[Edited 2008-08-15 00:38:00]

User currently offlinePoint8six From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9834 times:

Standards, Gentlemen, Standards!
Clip-on ties, sandals and loafers without socks, shirt-tails hanging out - the world is going to the dogs! I suppose standing alongside one' uniform cap, instead of underneath it will be next  Wow!
Standards! Big grin


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17185 posts, RR: 66
Reply 14, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9826 times:



Quoting Point8six (Reply 13):
Clip-on ties, sandals and loafers without socks, shirt-tails hanging out - the world is going to the dogs! I

I'll have you know that sandals WITH socks are the problem!  Wink



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9820 times:

Clip on is better from a safety point of view.
However out here the option to use both types exist.

Personally I still struggle to get that double knot done every time,& end up wasting 10-15 mins on every tie tying occassion,official or personal.


regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17185 posts, RR: 66
Reply 16, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9794 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
Personally I still struggle to get that double knot done every time,& end up wasting 10-15 mins on every tie tying occassion,official or personal.

Practice practice practice.  Wink



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 17, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9768 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
Clip on is better from a safety point of view.

Did you not read how a DC-9 was nearly lost because of a clip-on tie? Heavens man! Why do you think I dredge up these pointless or improbable stories?

Seriously, if a police officer or a bar bouncer chooses to wear a clip-on so they can't be dragged into an indefensible position (like slamming their nose into the other person's knee) then that is a safety reason. I don't know how it is in other countries but here in the US and also A it seems that guys who operate rotating machinery don't tend to wear ties in the first place. For the rest of us - if your tie could get caught on any kind of machinery and thus, pose a risk to you or the machinery one thing is very clear: The machinery itself is in violation of OSHA's most basic rules.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
you untie the self-tied bow tie and let it hang in a cool fashion from your collar.

Ah yes, the "I'm drunk and there's not a thing you can do about it" look.

Quoting Point8six (Reply 13):
I suppose standing alongside one' uniform cap, instead of underneath it will be next

Well, given the popularity of the buzz-cut inmate-style haircut with guys of f/o age the hat doesn't mess up their hair anymore so they are not as opposed to hats as the captains were in favor of them. Of course with Rogaine, the captains don't need to cover a bald spot anymore so it is hard to know how the crews feel about them.

In all seriousness the worst thing about a uniform hat was what to do with it when commuting in civvies.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineEasternSon From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 672 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 9696 times:



Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Do some pilots either do not know how, or do not feel comfortable, tying a standard necktie?

I would not feel comfortable traveling on an aircraft piloted by a person who did not have the knowledge or dexterity to tie a necktie.

I equate that to someone who doesn't know how to tie his or her own shoes.



"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9665 times:

Shouldn't a clip on tie seperate off under excess force,rather than a convential tie dragging the holder with it.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9569 times:

I don't wear clip ons for the simple fact that you have to button the top button. The regular tie does the job of covering the top button so it looks like it's buttoned.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17185 posts, RR: 66
Reply 21, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9561 times:



Quoting EasternSon (Reply 18):
I would not feel comfortable traveling on an aircraft piloted by a person who did not have the knowledge or dexterity to tie a necktie.

I equate that to someone who doesn't know how to tie his or her own shoes.

Indeed.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
you untie the self-tied bow tie and let it hang in a cool fashion from your collar.

Ah yes, the "I'm drunk and there's not a thing you can do about it" look.

Well played.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):
Well, given the popularity of the buzz-cut inmate-style haircut with guys of f/o age the hat doesn't mess up their hair anymore so they are not as opposed to hats as the captains were in favor of them. Of course with Rogaine, the captains don't need to cover a bald spot anymore so it is hard to know how the crews feel about them.

Just shave it all off. Cool for all ages.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):

In all seriousness the worst thing about a uniform hat was what to do with it when commuting in civvies.

Hat box?  Wink

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 20):
I don't wear clip ons for the simple fact that you have to button the top button. The regular tie does the job of covering the top button so it looks like it's buttoned.

If you feel uncomfortable buttoning the top button, your collar is about inch too small. The problem with many shirts is that they thing they are t-shirts. "M" or "L" are not good shirt sizes because they make too many assumptions about sleeve length and collar size. A decent shirt has separate sizes for sleeve and collar.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9479 times:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 15):
Clip on is better from a safety point of view.

Did you not read how a DC-9 was nearly lost because of a clip-on tie? Heavens man! Why do you think I dredge up these pointless or improbable stories?

Seriously, if a police officer or a bar bouncer chooses to wear a clip-on so they can't be dragged into an indefensible position (like slamming their nose into the other person's knee) then that is a safety reason. I don't know how it is in other countries but here in the US and also A it seems that guys who operate rotating machinery don't tend to wear ties in the first place. For the rest of us - if your tie could get caught on any kind of machinery and thus, pose a risk to you or the machinery one thing is very clear: The machinery itself is in violation of OSHA's most basic rules.

MEL is one of the guys I meant when I spoke of the British tradition. He wears a tie when he is fixing aircraft, so he works with machinery. During dayshift, I also wear a white shirt and creased black pants (kind of inofficial uniform, helps a lot when I have to fly jumpseat downroute to recover some AOG plane, it looks better to the passengers than if I would sit down in the cockpit in jeans and t-shirt, but I leave the necktie and epaulettes off, else my colleagues would laugh me out of the crew room. While I copied this style from British and Irish colleagues, it is not common in Germany. But I have a clip-on necktie in my flight case.).
At night, I wear overalls, since there are no passengers and I'm more likely to have to crawl into some dirty corner.

Jan


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9428 times:



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
MEL is one of the guys I meant when I spoke of the British tradition. He wears a tie when he is fixing aircraft, so he works with machinery. During dayshift, I also wear a white shirt and creased black pants (kind of inofficial uniform, helps a lot when I have to fly jumpseat downroute to recover some AOG plane, it looks better to the passengers than if I would sit down in the cockpit in jeans and t-shirt, but I leave the necktie and epaulettes off, else my colleagues would laugh me out of the crew room. While I copied this style from British and Irish colleagues, it is not common in Germany. But I have a clip-on necktie in my flight case.).
At night, I wear overalls, since there are no passengers and I'm more likely to have to crawl into some dirty corner.

Thats exactly how it is......for line Mx its the Euplattes,tie,white shirt & blue trousers,LED flashlight,reflector jacket,cellphone,Letahermans pliers & RT unit.

In Major Mx its the good old Black overall,Inspection mirror,Head mounted LED flashlight.

hence its preffered that the tie snaps off when stuck in machinery,hence the clip on type.



regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (6 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9344 times:
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Why not just tuck the tie into the shirt when working near machinery?


Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
25 HAWK21M : We use a tie pin,but theres always a risk involved,in case things don't go as scheduled,hence the safety net in form of a clip on tie. I've seen a fe
26 Airbuster : aaaah, personal pilots favour at my airline, ground personal has clip ons, and they are requestable, but standard issue for flight deck and male cabin
27 HAWK21M : What about the flying wings pin.Any pics? regds MEL.
28 PGNCS : Excellent point. I much prefer the conventional tie, but we were encouraged post-9/11 to wear the clip-on (to deny a bad guy an easy method of contro
29 SXDFC : Since this is a topic about neck ties : Could anyone provide pictures of some of the "company ties" that airlines all around the world have. As someon
30 HAWK21M : How important is the Tie pin in such cases? regds MEL
31 ThePinnacleKid : All about the zipper tie for me... it looks like a regular tie through and through (much more appropriate for the job if you ask me).. but it has the
32 474218 : Is this really a "technical" question? I suggest it be moved to the Non-Aviation forum.
33 HAWK21M : I guess the thread starter thought of this forum as Pilots/AMEs would be more frequenting here. regds MEL
34 DashTrash : Wore a normal tie at the airline, but always left it tied up. Took it off and threw it in my flight bag during pushback. Wear a clip on now since I lo
35 9VSIO : Seems more like an "Ops" question to me, so it does belong here. Plus, given the amount of replies.... What's a zipper tie? Anyone here use the ones
36 Starlionblue : Clearly there aren't enough Bolo ties in aviation.
37 SlamClick : Just mine - with a turquoise slide in the shape of the State of Nevada. Those were so common here, back in the days when I was still a prune picker.
38 LAXintl : Several airlines, have requirement that ground staff uniforms use clip on ties for safety reasons. There have been more then the random occasion of ti
39 Post contains images HAWK21M : regds MEL
40 9VSIO : Ah, so that's a zipper tie.....misleading name tbh!
41 Airbuster : I'd like to post my flying wings pics but that would reveal my employers identity.......and i don't want to make that a public know fact. They are me
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