Brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3274 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5836 times:
With very little fuel and passengers on full flaps and full power the answer is yes. They have 767-300's leave from LGA so I don't think that it such a stretch for a B777 to do the same.
Jcchristie From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5719 times:
LGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5691 times:
With a light load yes, the 777 can take off on LGA's 7000 ft runways. The problem is not the runway length, however it is that the Port Authority/FAA have restricted LGA to all planes larger than a 767-400 due to the strain that the weight puts on the piers and the larger length of the plane's wingspan.
However I think they were limited to only a few gates due to the congested ramp area.. The 777's approximate 50 ft greater wingspan would likely be a serious problem. LGA also has weight limits due to portions of the runways being suspended on pylons over the water. Even the lightest non-ER 777-200 has an empty weight 25% greater than the L1011-1 and DC-10-10. That could well be a another problem.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4670 posts, RR: 45 Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5607 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6): The L1011-1 and DC-10-10 were specifically designed to be able to operate at LGA.
Damn what I would give to see a D10 or L10 coming round the bend on an expressway approach!!!!
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5584 times:
Remember that part of one runway is actually a pier, the weight and size of the landing dictate whether or not an aircraft can operate from LGA.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5533 times:
Quoting N104UA (Reply 9): Is there a noise ordinance in LGA with how close the city is to the airport
The airport is in the City, Queens. The City of New York is more than just Manhattan, there's Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens and Staten Island.
N104UA From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 889 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5494 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 10): The airport is in the City, Queens. The City of New York is more than just Manhattan, there's Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens and Staten Island.
I know about the burrows I am in NYC 4 times a year and it is right on the river and surrounded by many burrows
"Learn the rules, so you know how to break them properly." -H.H. The Dalai Lama
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5422 times:
Quoting N104UA (Reply 11): I know about the burrows I am in NYC 4 times a year and it is right on the river and surrounded by many burrows
Borough, I was born in the forgotten borough (Staten Island). There's not different rules in different Boroughs, what goes for the residents of Manhattan goes for the residents of the other four boroughs. Keep in mind that some of the boroughs like Queens have a high population concentrations than Manhattan, Manhattan is the 3rd most populated Borough (barely edging out the Bronx). Brooklyn and Queens is where they biggest chunk of population of the City of New York reside.
Generally no matter where the airport if flying over a populated area could be avoided they will route arrivals departures that way, at Newark Airport aircraft that depart runway 4L will make a very sharp left turn for noise abatement. They try to avoid departing over populated areas which is generally when aircraft noise is at it's highest decibels, aircraft departing Newark Airport make a sharp left bank to climb out over Port Newark and the Arthur Kill between Staten Island and New Jersey which is a highly industrialized area and sparsely populated.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5252 times:
The L-1011 was designed with LGA in mind as per their largest customers Eastern and Delta, I believe the DC-10-10 was also in the running for Eastern and Delta before their L-1011 orders thus the DC-10-10 was also designed with LGA's limitations in mind during design.
IIRC Eastern had to wait a while to get their A300s certified to operate from LGA, the Port Authority reinforced their pier runway pilings in order to accommodated the Eastern A300s. Eastern wanted to operate the A300s on their BOS-LGA-DCA shuttle, the Port Authority was able to accommodate the A300s through reinforcing the piers. DCA for whatever reasons refused to allow Eastern to operate the A300 to that airport.
Something about the A300s landing gear meant that the force of the landings were not as evenly distributed as the L-1011 and DC-10-10s, more of the force of the A300 landing was focused onto a smaller area.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4670 posts, RR: 45 Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5246 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 12): at Newark Airport aircraft that depart runway 4L will make a very sharp left turn for noise abatement.
Don't aircraft departing 4L actually make a RIGHT turn?
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5236 times:
Quoting FLFlyer (Reply 13): I use to fly DL ATL-LGA on the 1011 and they would put 300 pax on those.
I flew on a Eastern Airlines L-1011 from LGA-MIA during Christmas 1989, we departed during a pretty good snow storm which caused for a little nervousness during departure.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7410 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5145 times:
The 777 is a monster, DC-10 or L-1011 opertating at LGA had a limit of about 400K pounds. Since the flights were to Florida or ORD mostly, they didn't carry the full load for LAX or SFO. LGA has a 1500 mile limit.
TinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 963 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5011 times:
Quoting Brilondon (Reply 1): With very little fuel and passengers on full flaps and full power the answer is yes. They have 767-300's leave from LGA so I don't think that it such a stretch for a B777 to do the same
Full power yes, but I would think full flaps is going to add much more drag than lift. Perhaps a higher than normal take-off flap setting but I don't know about full. Any 777 drivers care to shed some light on this?
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
Qantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1258 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4928 times:
Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 18): Full power yes, but I would think full flaps is going to add much more drag than lift. Perhaps a higher than normal take-off flap setting but I don't know about full. Any 777 drivers care to shed some light on this?
Flap detents on the 777 are 1, 5, 15, 20, 25, 30
Available for T/O are 5, and 15 but this depends on airline, weight, runway length, weather, etc. The 772's will use flaps 5 most of the time and most 773 operators will use flaps 15.
Flaps 5 will result in longer T/O roll, faster T/O speed but better initial climb rate with less drag.
Flaps 15 will result in shorter T/O roll, slower T/O speed but slower initial climb rate with more drag.
For landing flaps 25, or 30. most operators use 30 but with noise abatement regulations and conditions allowing it some will use 25. Simply depends on airline SOP and conditions.
71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2765 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4791 times:
We had a MIA-LAX AA 777 divert to MSY last year and when they left, they took off from the 7,000 foot runway 1. Don't know the passenger or cargo load but it flew the 4 hours to LAX.
DC8FanJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 383 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4730 times:
I think the issue was distance between the gear for LGA's piers. DC-10 & L1011 were
designed specifically to meet the restrictions. Also, the shorter flights held down
take-off weight.
777 wouldn't have any noise issues, it's pretty quiet even by comparison to the
DC-10/L1011's.
UPS757Pilot From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4637 times:
Qantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1258 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4483 times:
Quoting UPS757Pilot (Reply 22): What about Flaps 20 for T/O? We can do it in the 757/767.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15904 posts, RR: 66 Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4449 times:
Quoting FLFlyer (Reply 13): I use to fly DL ATL-LGA on the 1011 and they would put 300 pax on those. I was surprised that a 777 would be that much (25%) heavier.
Well, the 777 can go a tad further.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
25 OPNLguy: Back in the early 1980s when we (Air Florida) had our brand-stinkin' new 727-200s with the -17R engined, the aircraft's 205,000 max takeoff weight wa
26 Jetstar: I read many years ago that when Airbus was designing the A-300, the Port Authority send a letter of the requirements for the landing gear spacing tha
27 9VSRH: I just watched a JustPlanes video of the 777-200ER (Austrian, VIE-KUL-SYD and back. The 777 took off from runway 07 at YSSY and used flap 20 for take
28 AAH732UAL: Well........... UA lands 777s at OGG. IIRC OGG is the limit for the 777 and 767 in regards to UA SOPs. OGG is about 6,000....... so LGA being 1000+ f
29 CX flyboy: yes Flaps 20 is indeed an approved takeoff setting for the 777. I have used it a number of times off runways when we have been heavy or short runways
30 71Zulu: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/00289AD.PDF Runways at LGA are 7001 and 7003 feet.
31 Starlionblue: Yeah but they're surrounded by NIMBYs. I guess you could try to clear them with the jetblast.
32 YULYMX: B777 from LGA could do a 4-5 hours flight with fuel load... no more
33 Moose135: Which would fit in well with LGA's perimeter rule...but certainly a waste of the aircraft's capabilities.
35 Moose135: But why send one 777 when you can send 126 RJs?
36 Starlionblue: I didn't want to say it myself. Jokes aside it is awful. Not even for the wastefulness. More for the absence of resilience in a market downturn...
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