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What Went Wrong With This Landing?  
User currently offlineClimbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

Hello,

What would cause such a horrific landing as in the picture below? It appears the pilot doesn't have control of the jumbo. Is it because the pilot came in too fast, or could there have been a malfuntion with the planes breaks?


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Photo © Samuel lo



Thanks guys!

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Nothing "worng" actually, just another normal crosswind landing at Kai-Tak, maybe with a "better than most" pilot.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Maybe he aimed too far to the right during the IGS 47 degree turn (possibily to compensate crosswind from the west? Or maybe from the east over the mountain as he's crubing left) and didn't kick(or not enough) the rudder to straighten out before touching down. But you must admit, Kai Tak is a damn fine airport to see jumbos "fly". I'll miss that place for a long time...  Crying

Tony,
B767-400er



User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

Thatis a pretty ugly landing.....from the tire tracks it looked like it started out just fine. What happened next is anyones guess.

He/she's pretty close to striking #4 engine.

I wouldnt be suprised if this guy went back to the sim after that episode.

You just don't get on the mike and make the normal announcment "thank you for flying X airline". You're gonna have a lot of passengers who shit their pants.

JET



User currently offlineSpeedbird092 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

Just crabbing during a crosswind landing

User currently offlineClimbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

What is "crabbing"?

Cheers...


User currently offlineCYKA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

It's turning the nose of the aircraft into the wind on landing, or what you are seeing above. The trick is to be keep the center of the wheelbase aligned with the centerline as you are flying the final.

If you were too keep the nose aligned with the centerline while landing in a crosswind you'd get blown off to the side of the runway.

For example, say your landing on Rwy 13(130 degree heading) in Kai Tak(above) and you you have a strong crosswing coming in at 95 degrees. You would have to fly the approach on something like 115 degrees to compansate for the crosswind and keep the wheels on the centerline.

The stronger the corswind, the more crab angle there will be. I may be wrong since I gathered all this from flying flight-sims.


User currently offlineClimbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

It seems like a lot of bad landings took place at this airport, Kai Tak. The plane below also had a bad landing. Was this airport closed because of dangerous landings to aircraft?


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Photo © Daryl Chapman



User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4191 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

Crabbing is the aircraft "weathervaning" into the wind. It is more or less a vector type thing. The stronger the crosswind, and the slower the airplane's speed through the air, the more of an angle the airplane is going to have into the wind to keep a ground track aligned with the runway.


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinePanther From Bahamas, joined Jun 2000, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2780 times:

Crabbing is easy, the trick is to finally kick the crab out and straighten out the nose while putting just enough wing down into the wind to stay on centerline.
I usually kick out of the crab around 80-100', however I fly with a lot of captains who can do it in the flare. It all comes with experience.


happy landings


User currently offlineFritzi From United Arab Emirates, joined Jun 2001, 2762 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

There is nothing wrong with this landing at all. Especially not at Kai Tak. This is how aircrafts land in crosswinds! The Kai Tak APR and landing is something I really miss.

Regars,
Fritzi


User currently offlineJG From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Oh my fellow forum friend,

I hope you are being humorous with your reply because there is everything wrong with this landing... this aircraft came within milli- or even nano-seconds from major aircraft damage. Very poor execution of cross wind landing techniques. The flightcrew involved, I am certain, know this.

Entertaining to view all of that airport's close calls. But, I would be cleaning (most likely changing) my shorts if I should ever be this unfortunate.

JG


User currently offlineMeister808 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 973 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Yeah.. just b/c this is a difficult airport to land at does not mean that this is normal.. the pilot should hvae had plenty of time to fix his crab.. a gust probably caught the pilot by surprise.

-Meister



Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

If anyone thought that NCA photo (the second one in this thread) was something, you ought to look at the next one taken, after the engine struck the ground and caught fire...


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Photo © Daryl Chapman



User currently offlineClimbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

Oh my goodness!! Why is that plane above taking off with engine damage and fire??

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6588 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Better to go around with one engine damaged and three working then running out of runway and putting it in the harbour, or veer off the runway into the traffic coming on the parallel taxiway. BTW, the seperation between the runway at KaiTak and the parallel taxiway was less than the ICAO recommended spacing...apparantely.

Whats's wrong with the inital picture of the crosswind landing? It's China Airlines, that's whats wrong.


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Why didn't aircraft just land in the opposite direction? I know this might sound a little naive, but couldn't ATC figure out a way to have aircraft takeoff and land off the same end of the runway?


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineAJ From Australia, joined Nov 1999, 2386 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2623 times:

Panther,
Lowering of the wing in a B747 is a dangerous pursuit due to the risk of pod scrape. Our company policy is to straighten the aircraft just prior to touchdown and allow the sheer momentum to keep the aircraft on the centreline.
The only exception to this is during an autoland, when the autopilot may drop a wing, however autolands have strict crosswind limitations.
If the aircraft is not entirely straight on touchdown the undercarriage will naturally straighten the roll.

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Photo © Craig Murray



User currently offlineN949WP From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2000, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2603 times:

More crazy landings at Kai Tak........ Wow!

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Photo © Alan Tsui



Click for large version
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Photo © Daryl Chapman



Click for large version
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Photo © Daryl Chapman



'949


User currently offlineClimbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 2550 times:

These pictures are amazing. So many people say they miss this airport, but it's obvious to me why it is now closed.

Thanks guys, I appreciate all of the knowledge here! Big thumbs up


User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 2546 times:

I think your obvious reason for closing Kai Tak is wrong. It's not because if it's IGS 13 approach, or it's safety (in fact, I can only recall 2 major incidents, Lufthansa 747 cargo, Air China 744, both didn't result in deaths, also, the Luf 747 was fished out, and is still with Luf cargo). The major reason for Chep Lap Kok was that Kai Tak is located in the middle of the Kolnoon, pointing out into a bay, and has no expasion capabilities. My Father worked at Kai Tak before we moved to Canada, and I've been in the airport only a couple times, but memories are still so vivid...

Tony,
B767-400er


User currently offlineClimbout From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 23 hours ago) and read 2542 times:

Thank you, B767-400er, for clearing that up. I figured the aiport was closed for saftey reasons, but that's not the case. But those turns and landings were indeed intense and must have been an utter thrill for the passengers.

User currently offlineOripippo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

Probably the pilot stroke the engine on the Rwy because of the heavy cross wind blowing from the left of the 744, you can clearly see the nose of the aircraft not allined w/ the Rwy, the pilot just didn't kick enought on the right rudder end he also didn't used the cloche correctly, in fact because of the heavy xwind he was supposed to give a lot of left aleiron in order to keep the aircraft wings parallel to the Rwy he apparently didn't do it and the wind brought up the left wing making one of the right engine strike.

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6588 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

767-400er,

I think you mean the China Airlines 744, and not the Air China 744. Completely different airlines. Air China has actually a fairly good safety record compared to China Airlines.....than again, what airline doesn't!!


User currently offlineB767-400er From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Cx flyboy:

Man, I keep mixing them together, esp with the China Eastern Airlines and stuff. Thanks for settingthat straight.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Tony,
B767-400er


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (12 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Major reason for Kai Tak closing is economics. It was indeed getting too small, but at least as important is that it is sitting on some very expensive real estate. I think that the sale of the ground it is sitting on would have paid for construction of the new airport with money to spare?

And don't call them bad landings. Any landing you walk away from is a good one  Wink/being sarcastic Call them below average instead  Innocent



I wish I were flying
25 Post contains images Climbout : Good point, Jwenting! The main thing is no one got injured in the landings above. I'll just called them "crazy landings".
26 WingScrubber : The classic approach into kai tak, bordered by mountains in a tall valley, meant that you had to turn right 45 degrees onto final marked by a giant re
27 WingScrubber : Two things- 1. How do NOTAR choppers work? As far as I know, to eliminate the problem of gearing up a tail rotor to eliminate torque, the engine exhua
28 XFSUgimpLB41X : For a DC-10, cruise is set on Mach .82 at approx 33,000 feet, this gives an indicated airspeed of 310 knots and a true airspeed of around 550 miles pe
29 XFSUgimpLB41X : ***That should read "true airspeed of around 550 knots"***
30 Climbout : The runway at this Kai Tak was really short. Looking at that Malaysia jumbo above striking it's engine, it is ALMOST OUT OF RUNWAY! Thank God the pilo
31 B767-400er : Climbout: Kai Tak's runway is actually pretty long, average for major int'l airports, huge for airports it's size... Take-Run Available 9490ft/2892.5m
32 Climbout : Thank you, B767-400er. I guess that's just the way it appears in the picture. Regarless of how long the runway is, doesn't it seem like this jumbo (I'
33 B777-200ER : B767-400er- If it had no expansion capabilities, why didn't they reclaim the land? B777-200ER
34 Post contains images B767-400er : I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but I'll try and see if I hit it somewhere near... 1.) If you're trying to say why they didn't r
35 Post contains images B767-400er : BTW, that was the longest post that ever got through the A.net server, I used to only be able to post
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