767driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19685 times:
Much slower....an empty 757 lands at around 110kts
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19636 times:
Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter): What's the slowest speed at which a jet aircraft can safely land? I think the normal landing speed is 140 knots?
PeachAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 356 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 19540 times:
Depends on the type of jet.
The Cessna Citation (500/501/550/560) etc all the straight wing aircraft can land at 110kts.
Also - when flying in the jumpseat on Transbrasil 767-200 (back in 1997) from GRU to GIG we approached the GIG airport at 129kts. (We also use 5 degrees flaps for tkeoff - something we dont do here in the USA)
WILCO737 From Greenland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 8542 posts, RR: 78 Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 19463 times:
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3084 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 19447 times:
Vref on the 170 can get down below 110 when it's light with flaps full.
767driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 19427 times:
The Cessna Citation (500/501/550/560) etc all the straight wing aircraft can land at 110kts.
Also - when flying in the jumpseat on Transbrasil 767-200 (back in 1997) from GRU to GIG we approached the GIG airport at 129kts. (We also use 5 degrees flaps for tkeoff - something we dont do here in the USA)
THX
5 degrees for takeoff is standard at my airline on the 757/767. Why would it matter if you're here in the states or overseas? It's usually company specific
Moose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19399 times:
Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 8): I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.
Approach speed on the Tweet was 110kts for instrument approaches, 100kts on final in the overhead.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 19347 times:
Now, by jet, what are you implying? A turbojet, turbofan, or turboprop? And, are we talking single, or multiple engines?
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Tb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1398 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 19313 times:
A light Lear 23 is down around 93 KIAS. Depending on the wing a Lear 24/25 can have a ref of anywhere in the 117 range to 147 I think it was.
A nearly empty Falcon 20 is 110 KIAS or 107 KIAS, depending the engine differences and the 2 different travel options on the rudder (23 deg vs 30 deg).
Most of the time we "cross the fence" at Ref+10 and touch down at Ref.
Rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2005 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 19292 times:
Several people have built self-launching sailplanes with small jet engines. Those would have a landing speed in the mid-40kt range.
G4Doc2004 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 123 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19151 times:
The Citation Sovereign (CE680) can be landed down in the 92-95KT range depending on weight. I flew the sim at ICT and got it down to 89KT, but I don't think that would ever happen in a real scenario. Just a couple of mechaincs in Flight Safety MX training goofing around at 2AM........
"Failure to prepare is preparing to fail"--Benjamin Franklin
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 15, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 19062 times:
A quick glance at a "not for operational use" chart gives this:
Boeing 737-300; Flaps 40; Landing Weight of 78000 lbs (A) gives me a VSO(B) extrapolated from VREF chart is 82.3 knots.
Same airplane at 132300 lbs, same flaps, the speed is 112.3 Knots.
(A) A weight probably typical for empty airplane, two pilots, enough fuel to make a takeoff and landing with reserves.
(B) Stall speed, or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration.
Unofficial, but fairly trustworthy. Of course the 'point three' on each number is a bit finer than I can read off the old round dial so you won't catch me anywhere near those numbers except on rollout.
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Ward86IND From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 19041 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 15): Boeing 737-300; Flaps 40; Landing Weight of 78000 lbs (A) gives me a VSO (B) extrapolated from VREF chart is 82.3 knots.
Same airplane at 132300 lbs, same flaps, the speed is 112.3 Knots.
I find this extremely hard to believe....132,300 lbs on the 733 is quite a load...i would expect a VREF in the 140 knot range at least...
of course that's my non-expert opinion, maybe some B737 pilots could offer their insight
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 17, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 19031 times:
Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 16): I find this extremely hard to believe....132,300 lbs on the 733 is quite a load...i would expect a VREF in the 140 knot range at least...
You are quite right.
You are talking about VREF
I posted VSO which, again, is stall speed or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration. (in this case Flaps 40)
VREF is standardized at 1.3 VSO so the actual numbers were:
VAPP where it is called that, is VREF plus wind or any other required additive.
Now with regard to the o/p question regarding minimum speed at which one can safely land, well that is a discussion with more to do with definitions and expression than with flight ops matters. Some (non airline) operators might use an approach speed of 1.1 VSO which, assuming competence and due care is "safe"
When does one "land" the plane. I've had a touchdown speed of about 67 knots indicated after an approach with a VREF of well over a hundred knots. The engines were stuck in a high idle condition and I got in ground effect and probably even had a measure of "effective weight reduction by thrust vectoring" as well. We just wallowed along just off the ground unable to get it down but we were a very long way from running out of runway. Safe? Sure, or I would have gone around. (not safe in this case)
[Edited 2008-08-26 11:02:11]
[Edited 2008-08-26 11:05:15]
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Ward86IND From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 18875 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17): You are quite right.
You are talking about VREF
I posted VSO which, again, is stall speed or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration. (in this case Flaps 40)
Oops sorry...i didnt see the VSO there. now it makes sense
CWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 622 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 18522 times:
A friend of mind who is a retired TWA captain told me that if the 727-100 was light enough, 103 knots Vref was not unheard of.
BigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 138 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18477 times:
Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 8): I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 23, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18466 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 22): Any jet can do 100kts GS with the right headwind.
Lowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (4 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18423 times:
On the 74 classic I have seen ref less than 120. Can't remember the exact number, but it was in "100 teens". It is like landing a kite. For comparison, at MLW Flaps 25 ref is 162.
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23): Even less with the right treadmill...
Aww, not this again.
Proud OOTSK member
25 Airbuster: on a side note, i believe i read that the airbii use air from the bleed system to blow over the trailing edge of the wing, to so increase the lifting
26 SlamClick: I think I can confirm that it is not true. They may have conducted BLC tests as so many manufacturers have, but not on a production Airbus.
29 2H4: I much prefer the kind with the optional "magical force" package. 2H4
30 PJFlysFast: I watched a global 5000 land at 90knts once! There was a head wind that day and they were light. But They normally land at 110knts to 105knts
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