Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Mid Air Collision Avoided.  
User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3054 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/08/29...iners.near.collision.ap/index.html

Why is there no radar coverage over the area, is it just down to cost?


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9413 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2638 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter):
Why is there no radar coverage over the area, is it just down to cost?

From the article:

"There was no FAA radar coverage in the area where the planes nearly collided -- as is the case over most open ocean."

I'd assume it's down to radar range. And yes, perhaps cost associated with that. They were 180 miles from San Juan, PR.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offline113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

Although RADAR coverage, by ATC, is limited by the horizon and the location of the radar sites, many GPS equipped planes today broadcast their positions via ADS and ATC can know where they are without the traditional voice position reports.

These two flights should not have been cleared at the same altitude on intersecting courses. An error was made by someone. BUT, it sounds like a save thanks to TCAS.


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2254 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2576 times:



Quoting 113312 (Reply 2):
many GPS equipped planes today broadcast their positions via ADS and ATC can know where they are without the traditional voice position reports.

True but there's only a handfull of controlling agencies that are CPDLC/ADS capable around the world. Noteablely N.A. (Gander/Shanwick, PAC(Anchorage/Tokyo/ Oakland, and a few others that I won't list.


User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Thank you people for the feed back, is there any interest from the airline industry to plug this loop hole or is it a case of everyone would like it but no one wants to pay for it.


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From Tonga, joined Apr 2004, 3454 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2535 times:



Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 4):
Thank you people for the feed back, is there any interest from the airline industry to plug this loop hole or is it a case of everyone would like it but no one wants to pay for it.

Im sure everyone would love radar coverage, but I think TCAS works well as a stop-gap



hit it and quit it
User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2254 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2526 times:



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 5):
Im sure everyone would love radar coverage, but I think TCAS works well as a stop-gap

TCAS is an invaluable tool even in radar coverage. Just consider the recent Fedex jets that had similar flight no.s taking off on parallel runways getting opposite dept. freqs. The wrong plane was given a hdg that turned it toward the other jet. TCAS saved the day.


User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

The article doesn't specifically state that no radar coverage ever exsit in the area were the event happened. I don't know the setup in San Jaun, but our long range radar here can see well past 180 mi out over the water. However sometimes it will be out of service and we must work off our short range only which is only good for picking up beacon targets up to about 150mi out. Sometimes it can be tense working without the long range because you have to worry about conflicts where normally you don't. For two a/c to get that close in a non-radar environment more then one person dropped the ball I'd imagine.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2402 times:



Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 4):
Thank you people for the feed back, is there any interest from the airline industry to plug this loop hole or is it a case of everyone would like it but no one wants to pay for it.

It's not really a loophole unless you get people trying to exploit it.  Wink Right now it's just a hole.



I doubt they will plug it anyway. The costs of oceanic radar coverage are not justified given the very low level of risk. If they had that kind of money, they should probably use it to fix some more pressing problem instead. Runway overruns or something.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

I guess I don't see why this even made the news. TCAS was installed for a reason, and worked perfectly.

This on the other hand is damn scary. Apparently there is some construction going on at FAT, and some have theorized that the lights of the Piper blended in with the construction lights.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_10344088



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 9):
I guess I don't see why this even made the news. TCAS was installed for a reason, and worked perfectly.

Well one minute, co-altitude in oceanic non-radar is really really close. In fact the technical term is "really effing close". Thank God both planes had their transponders on.

[Edited 2008-09-01 19:29:03]

User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2201 times:

Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 10):
Well one minute, co-altitude in oceanic non-radar is really really close. In fact the technical term is "really effing close". Thank God both planes had their transponders on.

I agree that someone screwed up, but I still don't think it is newsworthy. TCAS was installed to prevent collisions when someone makes a mistake, and the system worked. We have redundancy built in for a reason. I don't see how this is news. Neither of the two resolution advisories I've responded to this year made the news. Why is this one different?

[Edited 2008-09-01 19:45:19]

[Edited 2008-09-01 19:45:37]


It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2179 times:



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
I agree that someone screwed up, but I still don't think it is newsworthy. TCAS was installed to prevent collisions when someone makes a mistake, and the system worked. We have redundancy built in for a reason. I don't see how this is news. Neither of the two resolution advisories I've responded to this year made the news. Why is this one different?

Probably a slow news day. I love it when they splash the big headline and on further reading you turn up phrases like "in January of last year..."; "IF there had been a crash, it WOULD have been catastrophic" Uh-huh. Ok...



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6612 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

I take it that this is the DL flight with the kink in the track to the north of PR.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...5/history/20080826/1916Z/KJFK/TTPP

And this is the TSO flight - there's only one.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/TSO554



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineJgarrido From Guam, joined Mar 2007, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1990 times:



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):

The fact that the NTSB is investigating is probably why it got picked up. To put the San Juan incident in perspective: The amount of separation that was required compared to how much they had would be similar to two aircraft in the domestic enroute environment getting within one mile of each other while at the same altitude in positive control airspace.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Mid Air Collision Avoided.
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
DC-8 Mid-Air Thrust Reverse Questions posted Sat Jun 2 2007 02:52:19 by Blackbird
Opening Aircraft Doors Mid-Air posted Tue Oct 7 2003 00:02:18 by Steinwayartist
Probability Of Mid-Air Collision For HRA posted Thu May 16 2002 14:52:24 by Bsergonomics
ATC Staff, What Choice Of Air Space To Work. posted Sat Aug 9 2008 08:00:58 by Readytotaxi
Hi-bypass Turbine Air Temperature. posted Fri Jul 25 2008 14:28:04 by Hypersonic
Pilots & Crew - Do You Still Get Air Sick? posted Tue Jul 15 2008 13:48:58 by Hypersonic
Air Traffic Control Atsat Test posted Sun Jul 13 2008 18:44:57 by Krsw757
Air New Zealand posted Thu Jul 10 2008 17:25:42 by QF108
Air Powered Cart- Is It Real? posted Wed Jul 9 2008 17:21:44 by WPIAeroGuy

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format