767nutter From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4700 times:
I've also put this in the Civil Aviation part as i didnt know where this should go. So sorry if this is in the wrong place!
I'm going away on the 15th of this month and am flying with First Choice and it got me thinking of last year when i flew with Thomson. At the end of the return flight ( on a 757 ) i spoke to the pilots, and the Captain said he was licensed to fly the 757 and the 737, though because of this didn't fly the 767. And he was due to fly the 737 the next day.
The First Officer was rated on the 757 and 767 but over the next few months would start training for the 737-800 while at the same time staying on the 767 but giving up the 757.
I was told Thomson were the first airline to do this in Europe and wondered if anyone knew if any other airlines took up this strategy.
Plus what 737 do you think the Captain was rated on? as Thomson have the 737-300/500 and 737-800. I think it would be the 737-300/500 as they have the ''half glass cockpit'' and if you think about it have a same layout of the 757 ( im just talking about the front where the PFD, speed tape etc is )
Mender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4625 times:
The straight answer is I don't know but the 737-300/500 instruments are nothing like the 757/767 whereas the 737 NG is vaguely similar (if you squint) (and it's very dark)
Additionally, I doubt he'd have been trained on the 737 classics because of the routes that they are used on and are more likely to be phased out as more NG's come off the production line from Boeing.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4432 times:
Out here.....A B757 pilot can simultaneosly fly a B767 because of flight deck similarities,but a B737 is out of the question.Not sure how it works at other places.
regds
MEL
Airbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 385 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4408 times:
You will need a 757/767 and a 737 type on your licence. I suspect it is a company rule that one has to give up a type when having ratings for 3 on your ticket. It is interesting though, not so many airlines approve this, i have heard that Swiss (or was it Edelweiss) pilots fly the 320 and 330, and actually Monarch also does this i believe?
It gives the schedulers more flexibility but is it just as safe flying 2 types, different handling, different specs, different memory items...etc, anyone with experience in flying 2 types for a prolonged period?
Mender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4383 times:
Quoting 767nutter (Thread starter): I think it would be the 737-300/500 as they have the ''half glass cockpit'' and if you think about it have a same layout of the 757
Quoting Mender (Reply 1): the 737-300/500 instruments are nothing like the 757/767 whereas the 737 NG is vaguely similar
Even if the instrument panel was the same everything else about the 737 and the 757/767 is very different including the layout of the flight deck. You only have to look at how the 737 controls it's flight control surfaces compared to the 757/767 to see how vastly different to two types are.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4375 times:
Quoting Airbuster (Reply 4): It gives the schedulers more flexibility but is it just as safe flying 2 types, different handling, different specs, different memory items...etc, anyone with experience in flying 2 types for a prolonged period?
Out here the Regulatory Authority does not permit multiple flying on different types.
It has to be similiar flight deck layouts....B757/767 or A318/19/20/21 etc.
regds
MEL
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3410 posts, RR: 50 Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4355 times:
At one time --a long time ago-- AA allowed its pilots to remain "dual-qualified" in multiple different acft types. AA allowed those pilots to bid their "primary" equipment status each month, but those pilots could "pick-up" open trips in either acft type. Today, AA pilots are "current" in only one equipment type at a time --the exception being certain management pilots (TULE test pilots, senior check-airmen, etc.). The only "dual-qualified" line pilots at AA are B757/767 pilots as that is a dual-certification program with the FAA.
An FAA type rating never "expires" however, the "currency" does and if one is not "current" in the model acft, one is not permitted to operate flights in that model. I hold FAA type ratings in DC9, B757/767 and B737. I am "current" in B737 only.
As to which model 737s these pilots would be current in, that depends upon the airline and what it is certified to qualify its pilots. If the plane(s) has a "glass cockpit" the displays can be programed to mirror just about any cockpit the airline wants. It is all a matter of costs.
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2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4354 times:
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Quoting AAR90 (Reply 7): I hold FAA type ratings in DC9, B757/767 and B737.
Pity the FAA won't include the G-123 on there, if only for sentimental value.
767nutter From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4324 times:
Mytravel and Thomas Cook have the same policy, called the CCQ ( Cross crew Qualification ) where the pilots are rated on the A320 and A330 family.
Quoting Mender (Reply 5): Even if the instrument panel was the same everything else about the 737 and the 757/767 is very different including the layout of the flight deck. You only have to look at how the 737 controls it's flight control surfaces compared to the 757/767 to see how vastly different to two types are.
But also the -800 version has the same layout as the 737-300/500 only difference is the glass cockpit, the overhead, MCP, radio are all the same
David L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9210 posts, RR: 42 Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4309 times:
Quoting 767nutter (Reply 9): ytravel and Thomas Cook have the same policy, called the CCQ ( Cross crew Qualification ) where the pilots are rated on the A320 and A330 family.
I'm sure I've read here that some airlines have a FBW Airbus twin or quad rating, i.e. 318/319/320/321/330 or 340, while some others have a short-haul/long-haul rating, i.e. 318/319/320/321 or 330/340. That was before the 380 entered the equation, though.
Mender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4285 times:
Quoting 767nutter (Reply 9): But also the -800 version has the same layout as the 737-300/500 only difference is the glass cockpit, the overhead, MCP, radio are all the same
The instruments, particularly the engine instruments on 737-300's (that have been ordered by different airlines) can vary a lot. The 737-500 on the other hand has virtually a 737NG flight deck.
The point I'm trying to make is that there is a vast difference between the 757/767 and the 737 and these differences go way beyond where the knobs, switches and dials are located. For instance the 737 has only two inertial reference systems whereas the 757/767 have three thus the 757/767 has a greater auto land capability. I'm sure this makes a noticeable difference to the way the pilot flys the thing. Also, the 737 has only two hydraulic systems so the flying controls can revert to manual operation. The 757/767 has three hydraulic systems so it doesn't need manual reversion.
The 757 and the 767 on the other hand are very similar from a pilots point of view with only very small differences between the flight deck controls. The main differences occur "behind the scenes" so to speak.
There are a lot of differences between these aircraft and I have a great deal of respect for anyone who can fly both the 737 & 757/767 alternately.
Quoting 767nutter (Reply 10): Also Mender Thomson's 737 have this layout in the cockpit same as Ryanair
767nutter From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4273 times:
Ok mender i understood you that time, but i was talking about the layout in a BASIC way, plus what 737-500's are you thinking about? they have the same layout as the 300 + 400's, its the -600 upwards that have the NG layout
Airbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 385 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4230 times:
Quoting Mender (Reply 12): The instruments, particularly the engine instruments on 737-300's (that have been ordered by different airlines) can vary a lot. The 737-500 on the other hand has virtually a 737NG flight deck.
I know that they had the classic round dials first and then the more modern type of engine instruments on the 737 classics, but didn't they somewhat standardise it all after the British Midland incident?
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4225 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6): Out here the Regulatory Authority does not permit multiple flying on different types.
It has to be similiar flight deck layouts....B757/767 or A318/19/20/21 etc.
I had to add.....Except Examiners who are permitted.
regds
MEL
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4209 times:
Quoting 767nutter (Reply 13): Ok mender i understood you that time, but i was talking about the layout in a BASIC way, plus what 737-500's are you thinking about? they have the same layout as the 300 + 400's, its the -600 upwards that have the NG layout
The NG has two display layouts (same hardware, different software programming). One looks a lot like a 777 (without the CAS part of EICAS), the other looks like a 737-300/400/500. Carriers with mixed fleets use the latter so everything looks the same and is in roughly the same place. Carriers with all NG fleets tend to user the former.
Airbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 385 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4163 times:
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 16): Carriers with mixed fleets use the latter so everything looks the same and is in roughly the same place. Carriers with all NG fleets tend to user the former.
not all of the airlines do that, KLM has the standard "new" CRT displays in its NG models and pilots are qualified on the -300/400/700/800/900. My other question is, once SWA has moved to an all NG fleet, do you think they will change the instrument presentation to the new format or keep it old school?
Tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4148 times:
Quoting Airbuster (Reply 17): My other question is, once SWA has moved to an all NG fleet, do you think they will change the instrument presentation to the new format or keep it old school?
I suspect that SWA won't have moved to an all NG fleet before the NG's successor is out, so I guess it depends on what that airplane does.
767nutter From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4085 times:
what i was getting at was that the 737NG can have the same layout as the classics but they still have the 5 screens going across not like the proper layout of the classic with anologue speed tape, altitude etc
Mender From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4043 times:
Quoting 767nutter (Reply 13): plus what 737-500's are you thinking about? they have the same layout as the 300 + 400's, its the -600 upwards that have the NG layout
Your probably right on this. I've worked 737-200, -300, -400, -700 & -800. It's only the -100, -500 -600 & -900 that i haven't worked. I'm sure I was told by the instructor on my type course that some of the 737-500's NG type displays. Having said that there were several bit of duff info given to us during the type course.
767nutter From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4034 times:
In general the 737-500 have the other layout of the 737-300+400, maybe yea some have been upgraded, like delta are going to upgrade their fleet of 757's and 767's to a layout like that of the 767-400 to save on maintanence, having a NG layout will help without having the old dials,
unfortunately i'm not looking forward to that as i like the old ''half glass half analogue'' layout.
Airbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 385 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4005 times:
Quoting Mender (Reply 20): I'm sure I was told by the instructor on my type course that some of the 737-500's NG type displays.
Personally i don't believe this, i have never heard,read or seen that this was even offered, because that would mean that there is a retrofit available to upgrade the classic 737-300/400 and -500 to NG flight decks...and that is something i have never heard of...anyone more info?
Now, what they did do was upgrade the analogue flight decks to the CRT/FMS standard, maybe that's what he meant...
767nutter From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 161 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4002 times:
Quoting Airbuster (Reply 22): Personally i don't believe this, i have never heard,read or seen that this was even offered, because that would mean that there is a retrofit available to upgrade the classic 737-300/400 and -500 to NG flight decks...and that is something i have never heard of...anyone more info?
well seeing as delta are retiring their 737OG's i can only assume that no upgrade was ever offered, the only upgrade i heard of is what i mentioned earlier.
LeftWing From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 284 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3641 times:
while you cant be common rated for 737NG & 757..its only a 4 day course to get qualified on either of the airplane....its a Previous Boeing Glass Cockpit course...the plan is for 777 pilots to jump tp 787 in 6 days...
27 767nutter: so what your saying is the Captain would have flown the 757 and 737-300/500?
28 HAWK21M: Out here Flt examiners are permitted. regds MEL
29 LeftWing: ...the question was ...to fly the 2 airplanes on the same day....NO that is not possible since it is not a common rating...while on the A320 & A330/3
30 767nutter: what question was that? my original question was : what series would the captain fly the next day? the captain is rated on the 757 and 737. Thomson w
31 LeftWing: ...agree no one does but if ops had requiremnt a CCQ pilot could do it.
32 767nutter: yes MyTravel do the CCQ, so a pilot is rated on the A320 and A330 family, but i don't think law would permit a pilot to do say a short flight from lon
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