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757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?  
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10941 times:

I was just wondering, for any of you guys and gals that have flown 757s and MD-90s, which one has the better takeoff performance-as in more thrilling. I remember flying on the 757 as a kid and I remember it felt like I was on an elevator. I have yet to ride on an MD-90, but my best chance is DL. All opinions welcomed!

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33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10951 times:

On a side note, here is an amazing DC-10 demo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdH7b3OdC8&NR=1



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17028 posts, RR: 67
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10925 times:

The problem with this question is that you will have a hard time finding good data. Weights and atmospherics vary widely and have big effects on performance. Also, airlines don't care so much about it "feeling cool".  Wink


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10933 times:

My very first jet flight was on a Delta MD-90.

It was raining that morning and the clouds were very low. To get above the weather as soon as possible, the pilot wasn't shy using the throttles on takeoff. To say I was pressed back in my seat would be an understatement.

I've since flown on numerous 757s, but I've never experienced a takeoff to compare with that first one on an MD-90.



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User currently offlineLAX25R From United States of America, joined May 2008, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10918 times:

Two things are very noticable on the MD90 from a passenger standpoint. The first is how quiet it is. The engines are incredibly quiet even if you are sitting towards the rear. I don't know if it's because the engines are so quiet or what, but it seems that you can hear a lot more runway noise--like the nosewheel going over the lights in the runway.

The only thing I dislike about the MD90 is that when the engines spool up, air comes shotting out of the PSU should you have the air vent open. It's pretty comical to see everyone raising their hands to turn down their own air at the same time on takeoff.


User currently offlineNjxc500 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10903 times:

I have wondered the same for a long time. I think the key is the thrust to weight ratio, combined with design for short field operation, which usually leads to a high ratio, as mentioned, but also to wing design and other things.

I have ridden on md90s a couple times, but I've never ridden on a 757. I have however been on a test flight of a bombardier global 5000. That thing is designed to operate out of shorter fields, so it was shortened from the express, and one less fuel tank. But on the day I rode in it, they used short field procedures, and we had relatively little fuel on board. Anything that wasn't strapped in was sliding back to the baggage hold, and I was facing backwards. It's a little tough without a headrest. My guess is 5 seconds from brake release to airborn, and another five we were at 40 degrees nose up.......

I'm sure with a light load, the 757 is fast, but unfortunately I can't compare.

Nick


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10886 times:

Interestingly enough, and this is just based off of "feel" in the cabin, id put the MD-88 in front of the MD90 and 757. But that's just my opinion. Just so you know for tech and data reasons, all are Delta metal.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10730 times:

MD90... hands down winner for short-haul flight. Longer the distance (more fuel = more weight) the more the 757-200 (RR engines) starts to shine.

Based upon personal experience flying nearly identical short-haul flights from short runways: KSNA-KSFO/KSJC.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineBAe146QT From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2006, 996 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10693 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
Also, airlines don't care so much about it "feeling cool".

Good answer, (all of it - not just what I quoted).

We've had conversations about performance before, and about how you're better off getting your engine to optimum operating altitude as soon as possible. But no-one will do that at the expense of excessive use during climb. The maths just don't work out.

Incidentally, the steepest climb I have ever experienced was a near-empty Virgin 747-400 in fog and freezing cold weather from Heathrow. It felt at first like a normal lightweight climb. It ended up feeling like we were going straight to the moon. I've been flying for every one of the 35 years of my life and I have never been so impressed (and a little frightened) as I was that dark November morning.

(Edit : Grammar)

[Edited 2008-09-22 10:19:42]


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User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10563 times:

Any flight out of SNA rocks! Ive done the 73G on WN....and that was awesome!  bigthumbsup 


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3471 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10472 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Any flight out of SNA rocks! Ive done the 73G on WN....and that was awesome!

Naw... they're "wimps" compared to the MD90 flying the same flight. Heavier basic airframe with about 10% less thrust. Nice, but nowhere near as much fun. hyper 



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10423 times:



Quoting LAX25R (Reply 4):
Two things are very noticable on the MD90 from a passenger standpoint. The first is how quiet it is. The engines are incredibly quiet even if you are sitting towards the rear. I

I personally found that at the back of the MD90 it was very loud! I wouldn't want to spend any time on the back of that plane!


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10279 times:



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10):

Any flight out of SNA is awesome regardless of aircraft type. Ive done the 73G and A320 out of there. And they BOTH were pretty steep! Still awesome in my book....the #1 airport I chose when going to/from the Los Angeles area.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10262 times:

LR-60. Brake release to FL410 in 17 minutes at max takeoff weight and ISA.

ISA -10 with 3 hours of fuel and 2 pax (20,000lb TOGW) you can get there in 10.8 minutes.



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1588 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10252 times:



Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 13):
LR-60. Brake release to FL410 in 17 minutes at max takeoff weight and ISA.

Yeah, I am with Illini on this one, just about any Learjet would kick an Md-90 or 757's ass any day, even heavy. If you are light, forget about it, if you don't know what you are doing you better do a de-rated takeoff or you will have an altitude bust. I took a fairly light 25 from ground to FL190 in just under 3 minutes and that particular one is the pig of the fleet and the VSI was still pegged almost all the way up!



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineAtlturbine From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 158 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10234 times:

A personal observation...As a nonrev on Delta I have been denied boarding on MD-88's in the western US during the summer months due to weight restrictions on numerous occasions. (TUS, PHX & SLC specifically) I have never been denied boarding due to weight restrictions on a Boeing aircraft.

757-200 gross weight 255,000 lb (115,680 kg)
757-200 max thrust Rolls-Royce RB211-535E4 40,200 lb (179 kN)

Rolls-Royce RB211-535E4B 43,500 lb (193.5 kN)

Pratt & Whitney PW2037 36,600 lb (162.8 kN)

Pratt & Whitney PW2040 40,100 lb (178.4 kN)

MD-90-30 gross weight 156,000 lb (70,760 kg)
MD-90-30 max thrust International Aero V2525-D5 25,000 lb (11,340 kg)

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/out_of_production.html

I have flown on MD-90's many times & think they are good airplanes! (first stage IV commercial aircraft I think)

I understand that so much of climb ability has to to with the wing design etc. I am admittedly biased on this issue only because I have worked on & flown on the 757 for so many years. The takeoff performance of this airplane is incredible!

Check out this AWESOME video of a 757 short takeoff....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEoDW6t0SWE



To the World you might be One Person but to One Person you might be the World
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10219 times:
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Quoting Tb727 (Reply 14):
I took a fairly light 25 from ground to FL190 in just under 3 minutes

At what altitude did you start levelling off?

2H4



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User currently offlineAtlturbine From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 158 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10208 times:



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 14):
Yeah, I am with Illini on this one, just about any Learjet would kick an Md-90 or 757's ass any day, even heavy. If you are light, forget about it, if you don't know what you are doing you better do a de-rated takeoff or you will have an altitude bust. I took a fairly light 25 from ground to FL190 in just under 3 minutes and that particular one is the pig of the fleet and the VSI was still pegged almost all the way up!

Of course they will. Why not throw an F-18 into the mix as well. But I think EA772LR was talking about MD-90's & 757's.



To the World you might be One Person but to One Person you might be the World
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1588 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10041 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
At what altitude did you start levelling off?

By the time you get to 1000' to go you have to really start running the pitch down some and pull the power back otherwise you will balloon it through, the other tricky part on that one in particular was the transition altitude and changing the altimeter to 29.92" out of 17,000'. You also have to be smooth about it all! Any monkey could go out and jerk an airplane through the sky!



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineAcNDTTech From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 9826 times:

The best "feeling" take off for me used to be on the L-1011's. Man, I sure do miss those planes.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5771 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9583 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
I have yet to ride on an MD-90, but my best chance is DL.

I highly recommend it.

But I think the 757 has the CAPABILITY to climb stronger. Now, it's rarely used.

Quoting Atlturbine (Reply 15):
As a nonrev on Delta I have been denied boarding on MD-88's in the western US during the summer months due to weight restrictions on numerous occasions.

The MD-80 has weaker hot and high performance than several other aircraft, including the MD-90 and 757. The -80 had respectable hot and high performance when it was new, but since then, several aircraft have come into existence that are better.
The 757 has a lot of wing and power, but will still overtemp the engines coming out of Salt Lake in the summer for a 4 hour flight to Anchorage. Don't ask how I know.
The MD-80 is limited by it's JT8's.
The MD-90 is limited (rarely) by the fact that it has the same wing as the -80, yet more fuselage and much heavier engines.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 9372 times:



Quoting AcNDTTech (Reply 19):
The best "feeling" take off for me used to be on the L-1011's. Man, I sure do miss those planes.

I am inclined to agree - took a very light one LGW-AGP back in the day and it was quite breathtaking.

Done an even emptier 1-2-GO MD83 in a Monsoon from Surat-Thani-DMK - was obviously a full-power takeoff and the steepest climb i've ever been on - literally 12 seconds from brakes off to the thud of the gear doors opening.

I like the feeling of raw power on the 757 - will miss them when they are gone.

Not tried the MD90 yet.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineAtlturbine From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 158 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9236 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 20):
The 757 has a lot of wing and power, but will still overtemp the engines coming out of Salt Lake in the summer for a 4 hour flight to Anchorage. Don't ask how I know.

So did the 757 leave with empty seats? Was that recent? I realize that early on the Pratt engines were plagued with temp problems but I thought those had been resolved through several mods & upgrades @ least thats what we were taught in 57 school.



To the World you might be One Person but to One Person you might be the World
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8993 times:



Quoting LAX25R (Reply 4):
Two things are very noticable on the MD90 from a passenger standpoint. The first is how quiet it is. The engines are incredibly quiet even if you are sitting towards the rear. I don't know if it's because the engines are so quiet or what, but it seems that you can hear a lot more runway noise--like the nosewheel going over the lights in the runway.

With an MD-90 you can stand at the nose with the engines running and have a normal conversation. Taking to someone around an MD-80 usually means yelling.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19568 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8964 times:



Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 8):
Incidentally, the steepest climb I have ever experienced was a near-empty Virgin 747-400 in fog and freezing cold weather from Heathrow.

I'll never forget the day when a number of factors conspired to give me the most amazing T/O I've ever felt.

I was supposed to be flying a UA 772 from SFO to ORD (first 772 flight ever). But when I got to the gate, there was an equipment change. It was a 744. Only time I've ever been sad to see a 744 on the stand.

The winds were such that we used 19L for departure. There must have been 20 pax aboard this plane. The pilot spun up the engines to about half T/O thrust and then released the brakes. The plane acted like it had just been stung. I was aft of the wing, so all I heard was a lot of roaring and then about 20 seconds later the wings were doing that stretchy thing they do on the 744 and then we were up, fog off the wings and everything. Our initial climb was so steep that I was worried we might stall. The ground just fell away.

To date, I have never been in any other plane, not even a 757, that has shown me that sort of takeoff.


25 XaraB : I experienced just about the same in an SK 736 a couple of years ago from TRD to BGO. We were 6 passengers on board, and as the captain walked past t
26 DocLightning : I still love sitting as far forward in an MD-80 or MD-90 as I can. Way up at the Y-class bulkhead you can barely hear the engines and so it feels like
27 SNAFlyboy : Amen!..though I may be slightly biased. It's incredible to be in the pattern or on the ramp and watch the 752s and DL MD-90s take off, those things a
28 ATCT : It is rarely done but a maximum performance takeoff on a 757 is a beautiful thing. I was working a COA 752 heading to EWR (from IAH) and he had some n
29 AA737-823 : I don't have access to PAX numbers. But I can tell you that it's a fairly common occurrence. Recent? Summers.
30 AirxLiban : Both have powerful takeoffs, but I prefer the 757-200s. You can't beat the hum of the RB211 at full power. That said, the MD-90 is incredibly stable a
31 EA772LR : What a great analogy!
32 DeltaGuy : Try an empty G550 at Rated power on a cold day- Vr comes awfly quick. I was waiting for AAR90 to chime in, good to see a loyal MadDog90 driver DeltaG
33 AAR90 : It has been a long time since I had the pleasure of driving the 90. OTOH, it appears I may be the only one here who has actually flown the 737, 757 a
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