Nycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5191 times:
I've been trolling through lots of flight deck photo's in the database, and something I've found that is fascinating me is the differences of some flight decks for the same aircraft. in particular EIFS type upgrades to steam driven flight decks. Is this common? Looking at the DC-10, it looks like NW made some modifications, is this typical through out an aircraft life? I noticed also in looking at the 707 that some airlines added flight management comptuers as well.
do you need to re-certify? who does this modification? I know MD/Boeing did the MD-10 upgrade and I found in another thread that a company has a full digital flight deck upgrade for the 767/757 and 737.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6369 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5149 times:
Quoting Nycbjr (Thread starter): do you need to re-certify? who does this modification? I know MD/Boeing did the MD-10 upgrade and I found in another thread that a company has a full digital flight deck upgrade for the 767/757 and 737.
Just curious how this works?
you are putting FAA certified hardware into into an FAA certified aircraft...you just have to have an approval to install the said hardware into the aircraft. Such an approval is formalized on a piece of paper called an STC (Supplemental Type Certificate), which usually includes such niceties as what additional pieces are needed, and how the installer is to install the parts. To get this piece of paper, the applicant for the STC has to demonstrate to the FAA that the parts, once installed by using the STC instructions, will not negatively impact the aircraft or any of its systems (which involves engineering work, in the case of cockpit avionics, usually EE's). The ability of obtaining an STC may hinge on how much information the manufacturer is willing to supply to the parties creating the STC, if the manufacturer is unwilling to provide specs, then it might mean that the STC applicant has to reverse engineer a system or two, and that will, of course, be reflected in the final price of the STC approval.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
AAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5029 times:
Yes this is very common. Especially now that most of the new stuff is starting to relay on performance based navigation. It makes perfect sense to get a 747-200 upgraded if the plane still has life.
Take Connie, their 747-100/200s have the Canadian Marconi FMS and EFIS. They now have a new lease on life. I am not sure but those planes I think now have RNAV(GPS/GNSS) approach approval. They also meet all the requirements of AC 90-100. IIRC the Marconi has tha ability to accept a lot of the requirements for RNAV(RNP) approaches as well (AC 90-101) so those new approaches are the wave of the future as well. They also have MNPS and RNP enroute which allows less separation and stuff.
All this stuff means the planes can go on and on for years to come. I think those FMS' in the 747-100/200s are set up to accept new things in the future, that is called FANS(Future Air Navigation System). Needless to say, upgrades like that also raise the value of the planes. I mean a 747-200F with a FMS like the Marconi is more valuable then a 747-200F with the old INS system.
It makes perfect sense if airline plan to keep older airplanes around. Sooner or later those un-upgradeded planes flat out won't be able to fly since the old things they used..... VOR/NDB etc etc are so few and far between that they can't support that kind of navigation anymore.
I think the NW DC-10s were modified just right for the newer requirements for flying NAT TRACKs back when MNPS, SLOP, and RNP4 and 10 separation and all that started to be implemented. Since the planes where used a lot on TATL flights, they needed to be upgraded to stay able to fly those routes.
Overall, all these upgrades make flying much safer which is the best thing over all!
Keny156 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4492 times:
AA 757s are going to start the MAUI mod (Mid-life Avionics Upgrade Initiative) which will make the cockpit, to put it simply, look more like the 777. At current estimates AA figures to have the 757 another 20 years therefore the need for the new avionics.
Boeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1025 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4404 times:
Quoting Keny156 (Reply 4): AA 757s are going to start the MAUI mod (Mid-life Avionics Upgrade Initiative) which will make the cockpit, to put it simply, look more like the 777. At current estimates AA figures to have the 757 another 20 years therefore the need for the new avionics.
Already have one airplane flying, and it will be all 757 and 767's which makes it easy on use in maintenance when they are all done, since we will only have one subfleet in the 757's when doing nav data updates, unlike now where we have 3 subfleets, soon to be 2 after the last of the winglets are installed on the 757's