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A330 And A340 Exit Door 3 :Design  
User currently offlineB773A346 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 77 posts, RR: 0
Posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10724 times:

I wanted to bring this topic up a long time back:
On the A330-200 and -300 and A340 - 200, -300, -500, -600
One of the exit doors generally the 3rd one is smaller than the other doors of the plane. I mean this door can be used only for emergency and not for regular entry, exit and catering services.

I thought why did Airbus not make that door the same the all the other doors ? Does it invlove any type of logic to it or if they made the door same as all doors it would be B777 copy as this aircraft competes with the B777( A332/A333/A342/A343/A345 - B772) (A346-B773).

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25978 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10705 times:

It takes up less space. A full-size door would probably mean the loss of several more seats.

User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10692 times:

Doors weigh more so making the door larger takes more fuel. The door that is never used except for emergencies will be as small as regulations let it. I thought door #3 was full size on a 345 and there were 5 full size doors on a A346. The door size again determined by exit regulations by the FAA and others. I don't have time to check at the moment but I am sure someone knows offhand.

User currently offline9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 726 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10574 times:
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Isn't door 3 positioned on the wing? I've never seen wing doors used for loading, so no need for a full-sized door.


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User currently offlineEGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10498 times:

Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 2):
I thought door #3 was full size on a 345 and there were 5 full size doors on a A346. The door size again determined by exit regulations by the FAA and others. I don't have time to check at the moment but I am sure someone knows offhand.

On the A345 there are six full-size doors, and one pair of smaller doors positioned just aft of the wings:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Weimeng



On all but one of the A346s, there are eight full-size doors and one pair of smaller doors positioned over the wings:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Lofting



The one different A346 is F-WWCA, owned by Airbus. This aircraft does not have the smaller overwing exits, and has just eight full-size doors. The regulatory authorities determined that the cabin length between doors 2 and 3 would be too long, so the additional smaller pair of doors was introduced over the wings on the A346. Airbus later painted a pair of fake smaller doors on F-WWCA so that it looks like a regular A346!

F-WWCA without fake doors, and with fake doors

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © French Frogs Aviation Pictures
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Helmut Bierbaum


[Edited 2008-10-03 08:58:59]


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User currently offlineKimberlyrj From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10405 times:

Hi

The full size exit is an option on the A330 aircraft.

By having a full size exit when there is an evacuation there is a larger slide that is deployed. This means two passengers at a time can leave the aircraft via that exit.

With the smaller exit, only one passenger can exit onto the slide at once, which slows down the evacuation process.

I would have thought that if the carrier has selected a 9 abreast seating configuration (3x3x3) not the normal eight abreast seating configuration (2x4x2) on the A333 then the larger exit should be selected as this would mean more passengers are carried (in the economy section).

This can be shown here with these two pictures.

First is Monarch Airlines A330-200. Monarch likes to fill their cabin (with the option of filling to the licensed capacity) so they selected the larger rear wing exits.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Monar...irlines/Airbus-A330-243/1294837/L/

Next is a Northwest A330-200. This aircraft has far less seats on it, so the smaller rear wing exit is used.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/North...irlines/Airbus-A330-223/1390950/L/


I remember reading a while back that Boeing was not happy with the over wing exit used on the Airbus A340-600 saying it was so small to support the maximum load of 660 passengers.

Kimberly.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25978 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10355 times:



Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 5):
I remember reading a while back that Boeing was not happy with the over wing exit used on the Airbus A340-600 saying it was so small to support the maximum load of 660 passengers.

I can't find the maximum certificated seating capacity of the A340-600 but I'm quite sure it's much less than 660.


User currently offlineKimberlyrj From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 10292 times:

Hi

I think your right, sorry. Its the same as the Boeing 777-300, hence why Boeing were not happy that Airbus were allowed to have a smaller over wing exit, were the B773 had a larger one... Airbus got away with it in the end by saying that their slides take less time to activate and there for passengers can start using them quicker.

A friend who works for Monarch confirmed that they had to order the larger rear wing exits to be able to use the nine abreast seating plan (and have the ability to cram 380 passengers onboard).

Kimberly.


User currently offlineFBU 4EVER! From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 998 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10274 times:

Max allowed seats on the A333 with the large A-type door is 409. Somewhat less with the smaller B-type door.


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User currently offlineKimberlyrj From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10251 times:



Quoting FBU 4EVER! (Reply 8):
Max allowed seats on the A333 with the large A-type door is 409. Somewhat less with the smaller B-type door.

The max allowed seats on the Airbus A330-300 is 440 using the type A door.

With the type B door (smaller of the two) the max is 415...

Kimberly.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9228 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10251 times:



Quoting B773A346 (Thread starter):
I thought why did Airbus not make that door the same the all the other doors ?

Weight is the main reason, you just don't need the extra door or the extra life raft. Each pair of type A door (the big ones) you are normally allowed 110 people. Most airlines will have 2 and 3 class configurations where they will not get anywhere near 350, let alone 440 seats.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
I can't find the maximum certificated seating capacity of the A340-600 but I'm quite sure it's much less than 660.

The maximum number of passengers approved for emergency evacuation is 440 for A340-600 and 375 for A340-500, 440 in the 772, 550 in the 773, and 660 in the 744.

Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 7):
I think your right, sorry. Its the same as the Boeing 777-300, hence why Boeing were not happy that Airbus were allowed to have a smaller over wing exit, were the B773 had a larger one... Airbus got away with it in the end by saying that their slides take less time to activate and there for passengers can start using them quicker.

I don't think that is correct. The A340 is older than the 777, it can grandfather the certification rules, just like the A380 needed to meet the new rules, the 748i only need to meet the old rules.

Fr example, in the new rules you need two exits from each part in the cabin, on the 748i they will only have one exit path, the forward main deck only has one exit, the forward doors, it does not have an exit infront of the passengers.

Quoting FBU 4EVER! (Reply 8):
Max allowed seats on the A333 with the large A-type door is 409. Somewhat less with the smaller B-type door.

330-300

The maximum number of passengers approved for emergency evacuation is:
- 375 basic (when 3 Type A and 1 Type 1 doors installed).
- 440 when 4 Type A doors installed (Mod. 40161)

330-200

The maximum number of passengers approved for emergency evacuation is:
- 375 basic (when 3 Type A and 1 Type 1 doors installed).
- 406 when 4 Type A doors installed (Mod. 40161)



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineKimberlyrj From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10238 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 10):
I don't think that is correct. The A340 is older than the 777, it can grandfather the certification rules, just like the A380 needed to meet the new rules, the 748i only need to meet the old rules.

It’s in an old Airline World issue from 2001. Boeing challenged that Airbus could not evacuate the cabin of the A346in the allotted time (Boeing suggested they only just did it with the B773 10 type A exits). Never heard of it again – as if anyone would use the A346 at its maximum capacity anyway.

Kimberly.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9228 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 10229 times:



Quoting Kimberlyrj (Reply 11):
Boeing challenged that Airbus could not evacuate the cabin of the A346in the allotted time (Boeing suggested they only just did it with the B773 10 type A exits). Never heard of it again – as if anyone would use the A346 at its maximum capacity anyway.

Boeing made similar claims about the A380...



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
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