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747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?  
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1112 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

Looking at this picture got me wondering: are the horizontal and vertical stabilizers in the dreamlifter controlled electrically? A mechanical system seems difficult to implement with the opening in the back. Does anyone know. Is it fly by wire?


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User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5925 times:



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
Is it fly by wire?

Yes it is.



Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9097 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5906 times:



Quoting YWG (Reply 1):
Yes it is.

News to me, when did the 747-400 become fly by wire ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineSLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5839 times:

I think it's fly by "steel" wire,,,,,

Cheers!

SLCPilot



I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

The control cable (lots of wires wound together) runs are visable in the photo between the two sets of hydraulic lines. There are two (2) cables in the upper run and four (4) in the lower.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

These weren't fly-by-wire either.  Smile


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Photo © Juhani Sipilä



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Photo © David Goodwin
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Photo © Michael Prophet



User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1112 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5685 times:

All right. I guess it is easier to do than I thought then. I'd rather stay away from these planes anyway... Thanks for the answers.

[Edited 2008-10-05 19:46:23]

User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5676 times:



Quoting A380900 (Reply 6):
I guess it is easier to do than I thought then.

There are several different ways to accomplish it, such as quick disconnects that allow the cables to be reinstalled with the same tension, or springs in the cable runs that can stretch when the aft body is swing open and return to the proper tension when the tail is stowed.

If you notice in the Dreamlifter they use flexiable rubber hoses for the hydraulic lines.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5813 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5591 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 4):
The control cable (lots of wires wound together) runs are visable in the photo between the two sets of hydraulic lines. There are two (2) cables in the upper run and four (4) in the lower.

Odd- there are normally 14 cables going through the aft bulkhead... ten in a row, and four bigger ones, IIRC.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5383 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
There are several different ways to accomplish it, such as quick disconnects that allow the cables to be reinstalled with the same tension, or springs in the cable runs that can stretch when the aft body is swing open and return to the proper tension when the tail is stowed.

I think the former method would need ground checks prior to despatch.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6907 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5336 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):

I think the former method would need ground checks prior to despatch.

Well, I don't think these were intended for quick turnarounds.....



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5283 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 10):
Well, I don't think these were intended for quick turnarounds.....

Not about quick turn arounds,but rather man hrs spent on a task.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSwiftski From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5233 times:



Quoting A380900 (Reply 6):
I'd rather stay away from these planes anyway...

Why's that?


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6907 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5123 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):

Not about quick turn arounds,but rather man hrs spent on a task.
regds

Understood. But my main point is that due to the specialized cargo that these birds fly requiring a few extra man hours per flight is by no means a deal breaker. The alternative, shipping by sea, would cost much more in terms of lost time that it is well worth it.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4908 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
But my main point is that due to the specialized cargo that these birds fly requiring a few extra man hours per flight is by no means a deal breaker.

It may not be a deal breaker, but it certainly is important to cut down on man hours and turnaround time. I wish I could find the source, but Boeing engineers viewed getting the linkages on the 747LCF to work properly as a major achievement, and some manager quantified the amount of time and money saved by avoiding a Guppy-style flight control hookup. It was substantial.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6907 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4802 times:



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 14):

It may not be a deal breaker, but it certainly is important to cut down on man hours and turnaround time.

Quite true. Any gain in efficiency in any endeavor is always a plus.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineDl_mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1951 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4726 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
If you notice in the Dreamlifter they use flexiable rubber hoses for the hydraulic lines.

I think all of the rubber hoses are electrical conduits. The hydraulic lines are near the two center hinge points, possibly using some type of banjo connection.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6907 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4715 times:



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 16):
I think all of the rubber hoses are electrical conduits. The hydraulic lines are near the two center hinge points, possibly using some type of banjo connection.

Are you sure? Looking at the photo it certainly looks like the hydraulic lines are connected to the black hoses; certainly if I were designing it that's how I would do it. Flexible hydraulic hoses are hardly new; they've been used for about 100 years, and it is the easiest and most efficient way to transmit hydraulic force through a moving joint. Banjo connections make no sense; it is almost impossible to do without some leakage, which also raises the possibility of dirt entrance, which is the biggest danger. Also, all electrical wires are likely bundled together in one bundle; there is no need to separate them, as it is highly unlikely that there are either high voltage or high frequency lines that would need to be isolated.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineDl_mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1951 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4695 times:



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
Are you sure?

Take a look at what comes out of the hoses in the tail section. There are several "dips" in the wire bundles and there is also a electrical connector disconnect panel above the third red safety flag.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
Banjo connections make no sense

Tell that to McDonnell Douglas.......Used on their landing gear.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
Also, all electrical wires are likely bundled together in one bundle

Boeing separates wire bundles into several color coded groups. It is basically designed to keep wires powered by different sources separate. Each of the three autopilots have wiring running in separate bundles.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineDl_mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1951 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4686 times:

I'm gonna guess that the hydraulic lines are separated into two groups around the middle hinges. The upper group starts above the cylindrical duct in the main fuselage and is U-shaped at the upper middle hinge. The lower group appears to be an inverted U at the lower middle hinge. I don't know what the odd shaped white boxes ( that the hydraulic lines run through in the tail section) could be.

Now where's the APU pneumatic duct?



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineDl_mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1951 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4680 times:



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 19):
Now where's the APU pneumatic duct?

I hate quoting my own posts, but I think I have an answer.....No APU!


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This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4624 times:



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 20):
I hate quoting my own posts, but I think I have an answer.....No APU!

Thats true.
Any data on this aircraft systemwise type on the net?
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9097 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4510 times:



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 20):
I hate quoting my own posts, but I think I have an answer.....No APU!

I seem to recall that the APU was relocated to the forward cargo hold.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4459 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 22):
I seem to recall that the APU was relocated to the forward cargo hold.

Any additional Info on this?
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2212 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4322 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 22):
I seem to recall that the APU was relocated to the forward cargo hold.

What's the use of an APU when you need all that GSE (including that massive tail forklift) to handle the aircraft on the ground? It's not like a little power cart would complicate the logistics.

Not knowing the answer, I bet it doesn't have one at all.


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