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Flaps Not In Clean Config. On The Ground On RJ  
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

I noticed this while working with a regional carrier but never thought about it but gave it even more thought tonight off of my DCI flight from PHF to ATL. Flap configuaration on the ground is always in the 8 (?not sure what degree?) position but in the air, the wing is clean after the take-off setting is retracted.

When we landed in Atlanta, the flaps were brought up and again, stopped in the position before 0.

Why is this?


What gets measured gets done.
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSashA From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Have u noticed for the take off if they remained in the same position as before taxiing? Maybe the pilots and engineers around here will confirm that this could be an airline policy on fuel saving or smth?  Smile


An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3374 times:

Not sure which DL regional you were on, but (IIRC it was Comair or ASA), keeps the flaps down for inspection during the preflight walkaround.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3370 times:

There is (well was) an airworthiness directive out on the flaps system that for ground ops, they need to be at flaps 8 - something about the drive system...


Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3352 times:

I'm sure there is a good reason, however, I know I once missed bringing the flaps all the way up after we landed.

No big deal really and it probably allowed for a better inspection during the walk around.



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlinePJFlysFast From United States of America, joined May 2006, 463 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

I think it may have to do with with the motors. The more cycles its just that much more maintenance on the motors and that takes the aircraft down and cost more money.

User currently offlineBigSaabowski From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3266 times:



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 3):
There is (well was) an airworthiness directive out on the flaps system that for ground ops, they need to be at flaps 8 - something about the drive system...

You got the gist of it. We put the flaps in the planned takeoff position after a landing. So in Atlanta, you will always see the flaps coming up to 8 after a landing. In CRW, for example, the flaps will always go to 20. This is all because of an AD, having to do with the twisting of the outboard flap, that requires a visual inspection prior to every takeoff.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3264 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
Flap configuaration on the ground is always in the 8 (?not sure what degree?) position but in the air, the wing is clean after the take-off setting is retracted.

It looks like they keep them at 20 here in CRW.

Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 3):
There is (well was) an airworthiness directive out on the flaps system that for ground ops, they need to be at flaps 8 - something about the drive system...

Is it always 8, or is it the setting that will be used for the next takeoff?


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3233 times:



Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 6):
You got the gist of it.

Dude, I just saw your username....brilliant Big grin

That rug really tied the room together......

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3154 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 7):
Is it always 8, or is it the setting that will be used for the next takeoff?

Next subsequent takeoff; I havent dispatched an RJ in a while, so I was going with rusty brain cells.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3818 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3123 times:



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 9):
Next subsequent takeoff; I havent dispatched an RJ in a while, so I was going with rusty brain cells.

That explains why I always see them parked here with 20 in. Is there any reason some operators do this while others dont? ASA and Comair always do, but PSA, Pinnacle, and Skywest park clean.


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

I think Mesa does this so the pilots won't forget to set them for t/o  Smile

User currently offlineKstatepilot From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3095 times:



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 11):
I think Mesa does this so the pilots won't forget to set them for t/o

Haha, very funny. Actually there is an TSO that you can get that fixes the problem of the flap twisting, costing money, hence we don't but...

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 10):
, but PSA, Pinnacle, and Skywest park clean.



User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

As soon as you guys mentioned the AD, my mind started buzzing about a thread about problems with the CR2 flap system.

So what is the deal exactly? Has there ever been any modifications?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2975 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 13):
So what is the deal exactly?



Quote:
(d) This AD results from a number of cases of flap system failure that resulted in a twisted outboard flap panel. We are issuing this AD to prevent an unannunciated failure of the flap system, which could result in a flap asymmetry and consequent reduced controllability of the airplane.

This is per FAA AD 2006-12-21, which is available from the FAA website.

It appears that there are acceptable modifications, but if the carrier hasnt yet complied with the modification, then they are subject to the original AD.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
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