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Denver International Push Back Question  
User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

Why is it United only pushes back the aircraft about 200 ft and not turn the aircraft into the direction it is heading? I saw three aircraft right next to each other get pushed back in a straight line and left. The poor A320 in the middle had to wait till one of the 757s on either side go through their startups and turn. It seems like an inefficient way of getting aircraft away from the gate areas.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

You are pushed as ramp directs: tail east, west, or straight back. This isn't only for UA or only at DEN.

User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3650 times:



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 1):
This isn't only for UA or only at DEN.

Like he said, at almost every airport with significant amount of traffic there is a ramp controller that has a plan for everything. Yes, it's a non-movement area, but aircraft can't just go or do whatever they want. I'm sure in the situation you saw there was a reason for it.


User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

As far as I am aware they 320 still had to start up  Wink

So that seemed to be the best way of doing what they did.

xjr



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineRampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3593 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 2):
Like he said, at almost every airport with significant amount of traffic there is a ramp controller that has a plan for everything. Yes, it's a non-movement area, but aircraft can't just go or do whatever they want. I'm sure in the situation you saw there was a reason for it.

Absolutely! Like you said, there may be any number of reasons for pushing aircraft a certain way. As a ramp controller, you are aware of the traffic flow, space considerations, jet blast on other aircraft, VSR's (vehicle service roads), or terminal proximity, etc. You are also aware of what's coming or going, who's got a "wheels-up" time and who doesn't, and your plan usually ties into what the ground controller is doing as well. So what may not make too much to the casual observer, is but one small part of a much larger plan that involves a number of factors.


User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

DEN also has two lanes on each side for aircraft. Usually you push back far enough that if you're ready to go before the aircraft next door you should be able to get around them either by passing in front or doing a long turn in the opposite direction.


DMI
User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

Folks, I know about the various pushback techniques and the terminal area ground controller. This was unique, all of UA planes are only pushed back tail straight and, I watched for hours. It was just interesting, most similar airports such as ATL they push back into the direction the aircraft is going,but not DIA.

User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2821 posts, RR: 45
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3505 times:



Quoting William (Reply 6):
Folks, I know about the various pushback techniques and the terminal area ground controller. This was unique, all of UA planes are only pushed back tail straight and, I watched for hours. It was just interesting, most similar airports such as ATL they push back into the direction the aircraft is going,but not DIA.

Hey, you asked the question and we answered it. If you already knew so much about pushback operations, why bother to ask us?

In Denver there is enough room for simultaneous pushbacks from opposing concourses AND two way traffic between the terminal. In ATL there is only enough room for one each aircraft either pushed back or taxiing in either direction, further most mainline aircraft can't be pushed straight back in ATL without blocking BOTH taxi lanes, nor can they make 180 degree turns within the ramp. Aircraft get stuck behind or in the middle of other aircraft at airports all over the world every day. It's virtually guaranteed that nobody here knows (or cares) about the specific pushbacks you witnessed.

The point here is that actual people who have operated at these airports took the time to answer your question; if you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.


User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

YO PGNCS, just asked a simple question and was hoping somebody from the UA ramp in Denver would chime in. I am a frequentflyer and have seen hundreds of pushbacks,to the laymen,some comical some bizarre. Again, just hoping someone would explain why UA or DIA chose that pushback procedure. Maybe I asked the question wrong,my apologies.

Thanks again to all who responded to the thread, very informative.

[Edited 2008-11-08 19:13:26]

User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3203 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3410 times:



Quoting William (Reply 8):
was hoping somebody from the UA ramp in Denver would chime in.

No problem.

Here's the reason. UA has several "bank times" in DEN, or the major hub departures. 800a to 830a, 1000a to 1030a, 1130a to 1200n, etc. In these time blocks, there are a ton of departures all at once. If we gave the planes a tail-east or tail-west turn, we'd block 2-3 additional gates, who would be forced to wait until the pushed-aircraft gets taxi clearance from ground.... which can sometimes be exceedingly slow just given the volume of radio traffic to get that clearance.

So, Every UA mainline gate does straight push, and never gives the plane tail-east or tail-west. The ONLY gates that do this are B80 through B95, the new regional jet gates. On the inside of the "horseshoe" (B81 through B91) we only turn them one way, as there is obviously only one way to get out of there. On the south side though (B80 through B90) the pilots will tell us to push them tail-east or tail-west.

As for the gates at the end of the 'shoe', B92 through B95, those have some rather bizarre push procedures depending on which way ramp/ground want the aircraft to go.

Hope that helps!!



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Out here pushback operators need to be qualified & certified by both the Airline & the Airports authority.How is it in other places.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3205 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

When I worked at Evergreen it was like that but at Delta anyone who feel comfortable gets on the tractor and gives it a shot.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineCOTPARampGuy From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3184 times:



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):

Here you have to be trained to push and then signed off on CO and F9 before you can push by yourself.


User currently offlineAAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 835 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

I fly out of DIA alot, I rarely see or experience anything other than a straight push back at denver. Even with other carriers AA CO delta.

User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (5 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

I've had both experiences at DEN. In June, I was on a UA A320 headed for DFW. We and another UA A320 next to us were pushed back at the same time in a straight line. When the time came, we headed west out of B50, and the other A320 went east out of B52 (I think these were the gates...). On another UA flight headed to OKC, we had a straight push out of B33 on a 733. Both UA flights were in good weather. Another time, I was on a WN 737 pushing out of C48. We were turned to the west by the tug. Although, the WN flight was on Christmas Day 2007 during a blizzard. Perhaps that had something to do with it.


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineJoseKMLB From United States of America, joined May 2008, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Do any airlines do power backs anymore? I remember AA use to... don't know if they still do.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Out here pushback operators need to be qualified & certified by both the Airline & the Airports authority.How is it in other places.
regds
MEL.

Same here for MLB well for Delta and ASA


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