YWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1140 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6924 times:
I'd have to say the USA. When I was time building and flying over there, you could get flight following from center. This not only ensures traffic avoidance, but also emergency assistance as well. Where as if you were on a traffic advisory freq, you could be talking to the air.
Another thing about the States, which really doesn't relate to ATC is that there seems to be a paved airport every 10-20miles or so. A lot of them even have an instrument approach!
I've also heard the Germans are amazing at pushing tin too!
Wing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1552 posts, RR: 25 Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6845 times:
When I was a student at ERAU ATC at DAB was really a big helper for a non native tranee pilot like me.
After I started my airline carreer I never flew in US airspace but excluding them my vote goes equally to British and German controllers.Well %51 to %49 on the German side if I have to make a choice.
Most European countries has good AT services but to feeling the comfort I can complain about French airspace.Not their ability or services but too much French speaking between themselves, sometimes you can really have difficulty to understand whats happening around you.
ZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1923 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6773 times:
From a Canadian's stand point, I have to say the USA has the best ATC. When you need it they can really hold your hand to get you from point a to b. They really do a nice job with the flight following as well as CYWG has mentioned. YWG is also right in the USA having much more numourous instrument approaches and many more airfields, which is always great when you run into trouble.
Do not get my wrong, Canada really does have a fantastic ATC service, it is just that the USA is more capable.
On another note for a specific airport, the guys at ZBB really are amazing, they have to work with Indians, and Asian students (who hardly speak english) as well as everyone else. It is a training airport and is always in the top 5 airports in Canada for aircraft movements.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6766 times:
I like it the best: Home. The USA. I have to confess familiarity and low-grade jingoism may be a factor but I feel quite comfortable with it all.
Other than my home skies: Cuba Those commie controllers are very nice, quite accomodating, and their English is as good as mine and better than Jamaica where English is actually the official language.
Worst: Vietnam They let people shoot at me!! Of course this was a long time ago.
Happy Veteran's Day. You know who you are.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3084 posts, RR: 12 Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6734 times:
Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 3): From a Canadian's stand point, I have to say the USA has the best ATC. When you need it they can really hold your hand to get you from point a to b. They really do a nice job with the flight following as well as CYWG has mentioned. YWG is also right in the USA having much more numourous instrument approaches and many more airfields, which is always great when you run into trouble.
Do not get my wrong, Canada really does have a fantastic ATC service, it is just that the USA is more capable.
On another note for a specific airport, the guys at ZBB really are amazing, they have to work with Indians, and Asian students (who hardly speak english) as well as everyone else. It is a training airport and is always in the top 5 airports in Canada for aircraft movements.
Agree, however I think our friends to the north take the prize for being the most friendly. I also appreciate that they say "roger" to confirm your readback.
I think KC center is some of the friendliest in the US. Chicago Approach and New York Approach impress me with how automatic they are and how well they deal with the traffic. Potomac Approach seems like they can't handle more than two aircraft on final to IAD at a time.
Kleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6686 times:
Kinda sorta related...
I was flying with Atlantic City Approach yesterday and one of the air traffic controllers working that day was from Sweden - never had anyone that was as clear as she was. Also made for interesting times on the radio with her accent.
ATC: Learjet 123 contact Philadelphia approach on 123.45
Learjet: Going to 123.45 and can we ask you a question?
ATC (annoyed): Yes, go ahead.
Learjet: Are you from France or something. Your accent is funny.
ATC: No, actually it's Sweden, sir.
Learjet: Oh, well... Sounds nice anyway. Good day/
My flight instructor and I laughed our heads off...
Prok From Netherlands, joined May 2005, 34 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6629 times:
I'd say the USA as well, very straight forward, much info on possible turbulence/CB's en route and good direct routes.
Worst ATC: All countries where ATC doesn't talk english to native carriers!
Just curious: What do non-Dutch pilots think of ATC at EHAM?
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6622 times:
Quoting Prok (Reply 8): What do non-Dutch pilots think of ATC at EHAM?
Have never had any problems with ATC at EHAM. Very good, lots of runway changes, but they try to get everyone in very quickly.
Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter): Around the globe is there one country,more than any other, that you really feel most comfortable in flying through their air space?
That is a very difficult question to answer. For me, The US, Canada, OZ, NZ, Western Europe, UAE, South Africa, Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore all do a great job. They all have their quirks, but for me, it's very difficult to differentiate. I guess, from my perspective, I would really lump the ATC providers into 3 distinct groups. Groups that excel, satisfactory and other.
Pihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 3496 posts, RR: 72 Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6604 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9): That is a very difficult question to answer. For me, The US, Canada, OZ, NZ, Western Europe, UAE, South Africa, Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore all do a great job.
1/- The US : Too many non-standard instructions, local Point identifications are not published though used by ATCOs. Not very accomodating for foreign aircrews.
2/- Canada. OK, except if you fly a French-registered a/c into Montreal...Then it becomes quite difficult : accent and local French-translated americanisms...and being polite, you'd try not to antagonise them by reverting to English procs.
3/- Japan : Safe and predictable -what we really need, anyway. Accent has to be getting used to.
I agree with the rest... But...
Quoting Dufo (Reply 10): From my experience I would say U.K. ATC.
After all, they had the lingo. Their professionalism is to be credited.
I would've said something more tactful than "funny" but I guess she wasn't that annoyed...
I haven't actually flown in Mexico but I've used my ATC scanner a lot down there and I know the phraseology well enough in Spanish to actually fly there. Now in English they are 95% of the time very clear (or with a bearable accent) and they use the exact same phraseology as in the U.S. They also seem to be just as accommodating as ATC in the U.S. They all sound very relaxed but very professional. I can only recall one or two occasions where their english was ghastly but granted it was at a secondary airport with no significant foreign service. All the major airports and all centers seem to be fine.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15872 posts, RR: 66 Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6270 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 13): Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 7):
Your accent is funny.
I would've said something more tactful than "funny" but I guess she wasn't that annoyed...
She's Swedish. We don't get annoyed over trivialities. Jokes aside I have noticed that on average Americans, especially women, have a way of "seeking offense" over minor things like that. But I digress.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
SCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5092 posts, RR: 28 Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6269 times:
I would say the USA, if for no other reason than the service is provided on an essentially non-discriminatory basis to all aircraft, and there is no fee for service, so no incentive to avoid service and thus reduce safety.
Re: Mexico: I have heard many controllers in the US whose accents were more difficult to understand than any I have heard in Mexico - especially, in Philly.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
Luv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1648 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5876 times:
Quoting SCCutler (Reply 15): I would say the USA, if for no other reason than the service is provided on an essentially non-discriminatory basis to all aircraft, and there is no fee for service, so no incentive to avoid service and thus reduce safety.
No kidding...if it was privatized, I could just imagine the ATC guys giving you their paypal address to send tips to! ...if Starbucks employees can demand a tip for doing their job, why wouldn't these guys?
When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
Ajd1992 From UK - England, joined Jul 2006, 2645 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5790 times:
The UK. They understand if you're a student and accommodate you accordingly.
The worst i've personally flown with is the US ATC, at least VFR. Uncontrolled airfields, UNICOM etc is not my cup of tea, especially when in the UK you are treated basically as IFR when your around an airfield.
SB From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5675 times:
Canadians then Brits then Germans. US ATC is good but a little too colloquial at times - and I just can't get used to being cleared to land with 4 aircraft ahead of me.
The Dutch and Irish are very nice, but they seem to stray from standard R/T quite frequently or aren't terribly precise ("start slowing to about 180kts" for example)
PGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2516 posts, RR: 45 Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5667 times:
I think most countries have controllers that vary from marginal to nigh-perfect. I think the US is probably one of the leaders, though there are certainly some areas that are inferior to others (Indy Center comes to mind). Besides the US, I am also quite happy in the UK (though accents can be a bit of an issue occasionally). I have never had particular problems with most western countries, though I find some French controllers to be difficult to understand, even when using the phonetic alphabet.
My least favorite region as a whole would be Latin America I guess, as sometimes the controllers seem not to be able to understand even minimum aviation English (Mexico is generally OK). I hate asking a specific question and having ATC reply simply "Roger", which seems to happen there more than most places. Of course some places in the region don't have the greatest systems for the controllers to work with, and handoffs are sometimes either not accomplished or not accomplished properly. I also agree with SlamClick that Cuba has always been very pleasant and professional to deal with. I have never once had any issues in Cuban airspace.
P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5626 times:
Quoting SB (Reply 18): US ATC is good but a little too colloquial at times - and I just can't get used to being cleared to land with 4 aircraft ahead of me.
Why do European pilots have diificulty with this? This seems to be their main complaint with US controlers. From my perspective, it reduces freq. congestion. As soon as you check in, I can issue your landing clearance and not have to go back to you two minutes later. Also, why do European carriers take so long to roll? It doesn't matter if you prep the pilots or not ("Speedbird one twenty four heavy, hold in position and come up on the power, be ready"). With a tight gap, the European carriers seem to have no urgency. Why? Does ATC in Europe not place demands on the crews? Or, is it a different "culture" or what?
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5577 times:
Quoting P3Orion (Reply 20): Does ATC in Europe not place demands on the crews? Or, is it a different "culture" or what?
Have you ever been into LHR? I would suggest the terminal controllers at most US locations could take lessons from them. In all my times of living and flying in the US, I've never heard a clearance such as you have referred to. What I have heard is "into position and hold. Be ready for an immediate.".
P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5517 times:
No, but ORD is a different animal. Saying that, I am not being arrogant but intersecting RWYS have different requirements than parallels.
Quoting P3Orion (Reply 20): ("Speedbird one twenty four heavy, hold in position and come up on the power, be ready").
My mistake, I neglected to type "...for an immediate."
That is my question, having prepped the pilots they still don't roll like I/we need them to. Some do, Lufthansa does what ever is asked of them but other carriers act like they are the only aircraft in the sky/at the airport.
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7652 posts, RR: 28 Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5508 times:
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 21): In all my times of living and flying in the US, I've never heard a clearance such as you have referred to. What I have heard is "into position and hold. Be ready for an immediate.".
Actually I couldn't help but notice recently when streaming ATC from KSAN that it's fairly common for the Lindbergh tower to give very specific instructions regarding power on the runway. I've heard several times now something along the lines of "Delta 482, start spooling now and be ready to go on my next call, landing traffic is Citation on a 3-mile final"
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
SPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2097 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5499 times:
Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 17): The worst i've personally flown with is the US ATC, at least VFR. Uncontrolled airfields, UNICOM etc
VFR, uncontrolled fields, and unicom. Non of this involves ATC whatsoever. You could fly from one uncontrolled (non-towered?) field to another 1000 miles away, and never have to use ATC.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
25 PhilSquares: Not really. I have operated in and out of both places and at least with LHR there is some measure of coordination between the arrivals and local cont
26 SB: I personally like knowing that the runway is mine when I get landing clearance, I can assume I won't have to go around for traffic reasons - in theor
27 P3Orion: If you are flying a heavy you will never be assigned 9R for arrival (Plan X) due to your wake turbulence affecting the T10 departures. The one except
28 P3Orion: So you'd rather receive your clearance on short final? Rather than when your at the marker/FAF?
29 PhilSquares: It has happened more times than I can count! The last time we were broken off and handed off to the controller who was as surprised as we were. Every
30 Pihero: Because most of us are not native English speakers and even for native English speakers U.S colloquialisms could be alien... That's a very good examp
31 P3Orion: The heavy was already in position and hold. With the FAA, if I talk to an aircraft that is in position and hold, if I don't issue a clearance I must
32 Pihero: Hi, P3 Orion ! In this case, what is wrong with :" Be ready for an immediate " instead of " Come up on the power, be ready "? I understand that - as
33 P3Orion: What is "flight level one hundred", would that be "one zero thousand?" And, can I assume "standard altimetre setting" would be "altimeter two niner n
34 Pihero: In this particular case, there is a transition level at FL 50. Above it, we're still using Flight levels, beneath it, it's QNH. Yes, you can. That's
35 Bond007: Then perhaps, ... just perhaps, they have a valid point. The concept of 'cleared to land' in Europe, usually means that the runway is vacant ... that
36 SB: Absolutely, because I know the runway is clear and I can assume I'm landing upon receiving the clearance. I don't know I'm landing if I get cleared t
37 SB: I would be interested to know what pilots who are used to the landing clearance at the FAF think of the way the rest of us do it. Do you like knowing
38 PGNCS: I don't agree with Phil on this one and the basic reason is that at very busy airports receiving a clearance to land on very short final has the pote
39 Bond007: It's never happened to me ... conversely, in the US, I wonder how many times you hear "Tower, Alpha Charlie, confirm cleared to land" on short final?
40 MPDPilot: I have to agree with PGNCS on this one as well. When I am on final I want to be concerned with the traffic in front of me or my landing, and not with
41 PGNCS: I understand you point, I just don't agree with you. If there is an aircraft with a late turnoff in the US and ATC wants to send me around they will.
42 ChrisMUC: Hi PGNCS, I see your point and also at Paris CDG you get clearances like that, but I personally prefer clearances which are "safe" when they are issu
43 Bond007: I guess the main difference is... in the US, it's really 'assumed runway will be clear unless I tell you otherwise', and in Europe it's 'don't assume
44 P3Orion: From a controller's point of view, I want to make the fewest transmissions posible. That is why as soon as you check in, I am clearing you to land, n
45 Bond007: Well, only because your regs say you can. There is no point in waiting until the runway is vacant if you aren't required to do so .... unlike most of
46 P3Orion: LHR does not have the volume or complexity of ORD.
47 BuckFifty: LHR and AMS have the best ATC I find anywhere in the world. The instruction is standard, precise, and spoken at a normal pace. The word I use to descr
48 Airbus_A340: As many people have stated, LHR are by far the best I have ever seen, along with AMS, FRA and HKG. The US is considered high threat on our network for
49 FLY2HMO: Well I just got back from a 14hr tour of Socal and Norcal approach in a PA-44. Norcal seems ok for the most part except that most controllers would sa
50 MPDPilot: I just wanted to point out that there are some airports in the US that because they don't have radar onsite are forced to only allow one IFR Arrival
51 Pilotaydin: I can't believe it!! No one has mentioned GERMANY!!! I fly for TK and im sure ive been in and out of German airspace more than most carriers ever will
52 FLY2HMO: BFL has radar. Which is rare considering it is a class D airport.
53 Voar: I have to disagree with everybody saying the US ATC is better / more capable than Canada.. Flight following is available anywhere there is radar cover
54 Airbuster: The brits sound as if they have a bucket stuck over their head and i get tired from being put on headings along the whole route. for me the usa has t
55 Threepoint: Even today, most ATC outfits would endorse shooting if you dropped exploding things on their airports. When flying to uncontrolled fields, you, as th
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