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Type Rating(corp, Airlines)  
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16730 times:

What's a good type rating to have for corporate/charter flying?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16713 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

I'd say a Citation type. According to FlightGlobal, "Cessna continues to dominate the fleet in deliveries and in-service numbers. The worldwide Citation inventory grew by 360 aircraft to 5,240, representing more than 17% of the worldwide turbine inventory and over a third of the global corporate jet fleet."

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16688 times:

Be very cautious going out and buying your own type rating before you have a job or know what kind of airplane you will be flying. In the case of where I work, it's seen as a mark against you if you come in with a type but no time in the airplane. I've heard it is like that elsewhere too.

To me, it's not worth risking the money like when a lot of guys went and got a 737 type just to get the interview at SWA and ended up not getting the job a few years back. I know 4 very qualified guys that dropped about $8k each and all they have right now is a piece of paper that says they are typed on a 737. I'm glad SWA changed their ways recently.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 16684 times:

Right now, a type with no time in type is pretty much useless. NOBODY is flying and quite a few departments have shut down or downsized.

The Citation (CE-500) type has always been a good one to have, cheap, and covers many airframes, but the day rate and salary on this jet is pretty low. $400-$500/day. Another versitle type is the LR-JET, it covers everything from the Lear 23 to the 55 (except the 40/45) but the Lears are getting dated, the newest 35 is 20 years old now, and the 31 is dated as well, but there are still a lot of charter operators out there that have them, and the type is fairly cheap (under $20k)

A Global Express/G550 contract pilot will command $1000-1500/day for their services, but the type costs $50,000, and again, nobody will touch you with no time in type.

Whatever you do, resist the urge to undercut rate to gain time. You will find yourself blackballed so fast it'll give you whiplash. Hell, I'd also recommend resisting the urge to buy a type without a job lined up; these things are considered a cost of doing business, and its a never ending battle it seems with cheap operators that want to push their business expenses onto their employees.



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16655 times:



Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 3):
Another versitle type is the LR-JET, it covers everything from the Lear 23 to the 55 (except the 40/45) but the Lears are getting dated, the newest 35 is 20 years old now, and the 31 is dated as well, but there are still a lot of charter operators out there that have them, and the type is fairly cheap (under $20k)

I could give you a couple air ambulance companies that operate Learjets that would actually hire you if you bought a type and had no time in it. I wouldn't do that to you though. The problem is they have crappy planes and the Lear is a plane that you can't just jump into, it will kill you pretty quick because it's just not a forgiving airplane. When we type Lear guys in-house, it's not an easy ride because it's to our specs, not the FAA's.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16639 times:

LR-JET type doesn't cover the 60 either.

I wouldn't spend my own money on any type rating. It's just not worth it.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2833 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16624 times:

Unless you've been offered a job with Southwest, don't waste the money on a type rating with no time in type.

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 16622 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting DashTrash (Reply 5):
I wouldn't spend my own money on any type rating. It's just not worth it.

Unless, of course, your goal is to collect them, like this guy:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results

ROBERT BLAINE BRIGGS

Medical Class : First Medical Date: 07/2003
MUST WEAR CORRECTIVE LENSES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Certificates
1 of 6
DOI : 05/20/2003
Certificate: AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT

Rating(s):

AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE SEA
ROTORCRAFT HELICOPTER AND GYROPLANE
COMMERCIAL PRIVILEGES
GLIDER
LIGHTER-THAN-AIR FREE BALLOON
LIGHTER-THAN-AIR AIRSHIP


Type Ratings

A/A-109
A/A-310
A/A-320
A/AS-350
A/AS-355
A/ATR-42
A/ATR-72
A/B-377
A/B-727
A/B-737
A/B-747
A/B-757
A/B-767
A/BA-3100
A/BE-300
A/BE-400
A/BE-1900
A/BE-2000
A/BH-47
A/BH-204
A/BH-205
A/BH-206
A/BO-105
A/BU-2000
A/BV-44
A/BY-2
A/BY-305
A/CA-212
A/CE-500
A/CE-525
A/CE-525S
A/CE-560XL
A/CE-650
A/CL-600
A/CV-240
A/CV-340
A/CV-440
A/CV-P4Y
A/CV-PBY5
A/CW-46
A/DA-10
A/DA-20
A/DA-50
A/DC-3
A/DC-3S
A/DC-3TP
A/DC-4
A/DC-6
A/DC-7
A/DC-8
A/DC-9
A/DC-10
A/DC-B26
A/DO-228
A/EMB-110
A/EMB-120
A/EMB-145
A/EN-28
A/FA-1100
A/FA-119C
A/FA-82
A/G-100
A/G-111
A/G-1159
A/G-IV
A/HH-12
A/HS-125
A/HU-269
A/HU-369
A/IA-1125
A/IA-JET
A/L-18
A/L-382
A/L-P2V
A/LR-45
A/LR-60
A/LR-JET
A/M-202
A/M-404
A/MD-11
A/MD-500N
A/MS-760
A/MU-300
A/N-265
A/N-B25
A/R-22
A/R-44
A/SA-227
A/SA-341
A/SD-3
A/SK-58
A/SK-61

Limits

BH-47 BH-204 BV-44 BY-2 BY-305 EN-28 HH-12 HU-269 R-22 SK-58 CV-PBY-5 (VFR ONLY).
BE-1900 SECOND IN COMMAND REQUIRED.
SA-227 SECOND IN COMMAND REQUIRED.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2833 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 16610 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
Quoting DashTrash (Reply 5):
I wouldn't spend my own money on any type rating. It's just not worth it.

Unless, of course, your goal is to collect them, like this guy:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FAA Registry
Name Inquiry Results

ROBERT BLAINE BRIGGS

Medical Class : First Medical Date: 07/2003
MUST WEAR CORRECTIVE LENSES.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Certificates
1 of 6
DOI : 05/20/2003
Certificate: AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT

Rating(s):

AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE SEA
ROTORCRAFT HELICOPTER AND GYROPLANE
COMMERCIAL PRIVILEGES
GLIDER
LIGHTER-THAN-AIR FREE BALLOON
LIGHTER-THAN-AIR AIRSHIP


Type Ratings

A/A-109
A/A-310
A/A-320
A/AS-350
A/AS-355
A/ATR-42
A/ATR-72
A/B-377
A/B-727
A/B-737
A/B-747
A/B-757
A/B-767
A/BA-3100
A/BE-300
A/BE-400
A/BE-1900
A/BE-2000
A/BH-47
A/BH-204
A/BH-205
A/BH-206
A/BO-105
A/BU-2000
A/BV-44
A/BY-2
A/BY-305
A/CA-212
A/CE-500
A/CE-525
A/CE-525S
A/CE-560XL
A/CE-650
A/CL-600
A/CV-240
A/CV-340
A/CV-440
A/CV-P4Y
A/CV-PBY5
A/CW-46
A/DA-10
A/DA-20
A/DA-50
A/DC-3
A/DC-3S
A/DC-3TP
A/DC-4
A/DC-6
A/DC-7
A/DC-8
A/DC-9
A/DC-10
A/DC-B26
A/DO-228
A/EMB-110
A/EMB-120
A/EMB-145
A/EN-28
A/FA-1100
A/FA-119C
A/FA-82
A/G-100
A/G-111
A/G-1159
A/G-IV
A/HH-12
A/HS-125
A/HU-269
A/HU-369
A/IA-1125
A/IA-JET
A/L-18
A/L-382
A/L-P2V
A/LR-45
A/LR-60
A/LR-JET
A/M-202
A/M-404
A/MD-11
A/MD-500N
A/MS-760
A/MU-300
A/N-265
A/N-B25
A/R-22
A/R-44
A/SA-227
A/SA-341
A/SD-3
A/SK-58
A/SK-61

Limits

BH-47 BH-204 BV-44 BY-2 BY-305 EN-28 HH-12 HU-269 R-22 SK-58 CV-PBY-5 (VFR ONLY).
BE-1900 SECOND IN COMMAND REQUIRED.
SA-227 SECOND IN COMMAND REQUIRED.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2H4

Why hasn't he sprung for a 747-4 rating yet?  Wink


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16591 times:

That's crazy....

Funny thing. The two types I have, he doesn't.

[Edited 2008-11-15 22:01:46]

User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16554 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
Type Ratings

I'm not sure I understand that document. This clearly does not mean "type ratings" as pilots would understand them. For example, since when a type rating required for

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
BH-47



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
HH-12

I've been PIC on both of them and they are not listed on my license. And how about

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
HU-269

Which is a two-place belt-driven helicopter that wouldn't pull the skin off a pudding. Or

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
R-22

that hardly even qualifies as a flying machine - except for single-handedly bumping crash statistics to an all-time high.

Then there is

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 7):
A/DC-3
A/DC-3S
A/DC-3TP

Correct me if I'm wrong but that is but one type rating.

As for the practical side of this guy's resume, would you hire him? If you figure he got his commercial on his 18th birthday and flew 'til his 60th, that is 504 months as a pilot. If he kept himself under 1000 hours a year which some of those types seem to imply (airline ops) then he flew the average plane on that list for just over five months. That would imply that he didn't log over 400 hours or so in any of them and might never have actually commanded any one of them. So again, would you hire a guy who was only going to stay five months? Or worse, was going to bid a new type every five months?



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16551 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
I'm not sure I understand that document. This clearly does not mean "type ratings" as pilots would understand them.



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
Correct me if I'm wrong but that is but one type rating.

I'm not sure, but they're all listed as type ratings (on his certificate) by the FAA. I checked faa.gov just now, and here's what it looks like:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
As for the practical side of this guy's resume, would you hire him?

Well, I highly doubt many (if any) of his ratings were earned with any kind of practicality in mind. If I had to guess, I'd say this guy has simply made a hobby out of acquiring type ratings. He probably enjoys the process of learning an aircraft's systems and flight characteristics, as well as putting his knowledge to the test and passing checkrides.

If, on the other hand, his motives were to become more marketable and get a better job or earn more money, I would question his reasoning, too. But so long as his ongoing quest for types is simply an enjoyable (albeit expensive) hobby, I applaud him. Heck, if I was that wealthy, I'd probably go get a few, myself, just for the experience of doing so.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16550 times:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
As for the practical side of this guy's resume, would you hire him?

Nope. There is no way he is proficient in anything I would need him to do. He seems to be too busy collecting types. Again there is no way he has enough time in type, just doing the bare minimums isn't enough, believe me, I've seen it.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16541 times:



Quoting DashTrash (Reply 5):
LR-JET type doesn't cover the 60 either.



Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 3):
Another versitle type is the LR-JET, it covers everything from the Lear 23 to the 55 (except the 40/45)

Well aware of that, thanks.

For a while the 45 type was good to have too, I know of one contractor that got $2k/day to bring a new 45 to the Middle East. Of course, one of the reasons is there was close to an 18 month waiting list. The 60 used to be a good one too, but with 40% of the fleet for sale, not so much anymore. Then again, there's not much contract flying to be had, period right now.

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):

As for the practical side of this guy's resume, would you hire him? If you figure he got his commercial on his 18th birthday and flew 'til his 60th, that is 504 months as a pilot. If he kept himself under 1000 hours a year which some of those types seem to imply (airline ops) then he flew the average plane on that list for just over five months. That would imply that he didn't log over 400 hours or so in any of them and might never have actually commanded any one of them. So again, would you hire a guy who was only going to stay five months? Or worse, was going to bid a new type every five months?

Lets not forget to take 2-6 weeks out for the actual type ratings. That LR-60 type is a 21 day initial, the G-IV is a full month long. I wonder how many of those planes he has any time at all in.



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16416 times:

So you can actually fly a plane without type rating?
What is an advantage of having a type rating?


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16393 times:



Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 14):
So you can actually fly a plane without type rating?

Under US rules (simplified) you can fly any airplane up to 12500 lbs maximum certificated takeoff gross weight without a specific "type" rating required. Above that it must say B737 or G1159 right on your license. Smaller airplanes are a "type" but no specific rating is needed to fly them, just some sort of checkout.

The terms are like this; we speak of aircraft "category" "class" and "type"

So category would include, for example "airplane" or "rotorcraft" or "airship"
Class would include, under rotorcraft for example "helicopter" and "autogyro"
Type, under helicopter could include "Bell 206" or "S-76"

We need ratings in category and class but only need rating in type for larger than 12500 lbs. A virtual exception is high-performance warbirds. Even though an L-39, for example, is well below 12500 you need an LOA or letter of authorization to fly it. The amount of training is usually far less than we would receive going to a new type of jet transport. That training may take two months where I could get my L-39 letter in a day. (plus advance study time)

That's why I questioned Captain Laundrylist's "type" ratings. I've flown many of those aircraft without having been "rated" to do so.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineIllini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16393 times:



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 15):

Under US rules (simplified) you can fly any airplane up to 12500 lbs maximum certificated takeoff gross weight without a specific "type" rating required. Above that it must say B737 or G1159 right on your license. Smaller airplanes are a "type" but no specific rating is needed to fly them, just some sort of checkout.

You meant to say "fly as PIC" right?  Wink Last I checked there was no requirement for an SIC to have a type rating for domestic US ops...



Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16391 times:



Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 16):
Last I checked there was no requirement for an SIC to have a type rating for domestic US ops...

Correct. In order to operate abroad, we and many other companies made all our FO's SIC-type rated. Now that was the easiest type rating I have ever had. All I had to do was sign a piece of paper for our Dir of Ops! I am pretty sure nowadays everyone is "typed" most places. I did go to Europe as an FO once accidentally when I was supposed to have the SIC type and didn't have it yet. We found out the next day when I got back so everyone got the piece of paper after that.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 16388 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 15):
We need ratings in category and class but only need rating in type for larger than 12500 lbs. A virtual exception is high-performance warbirds.

And any turbojet-powered aircraft, regardless of weight, right?

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16306 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):
And any turbojet-powered aircraft, regardless of weight, right?

Correct.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16304 times:



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18):
And any turbojet-powered aircraft, regardless of weight, right?



Quoting DashTrash (Reply 19):
Correct.

Exactly right. In an effort to keep it simple I simply oversimplified I guess.

Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 16):
You meant to say "fly as PIC" right?

Yes, that is what I meant. Getting careless here!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 16249 times:

I read somewhere, that one CRJ pilot had around 5000 hours on the type but no type rating, so he pay himself to get one. So he could make ferry flight or something. Is that possible?

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 2):
Be very cautious going out and buying your own type rating before you have a job or know what kind of airplane you will be flying. In the case of where I work, it's seen as a mark against you if you come in with a type but no time in the airplane. I've heard it is like that elsewhere too.

why?


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 16240 times:



Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 21):

why?

Because you don't have time in the airplane. Getting real world experience in a real airplane is way different from the simulator. The way I see it when I see someone that has a type with no time in the plane is that they aren't going to be proficient thus safe enough to jump in and operate for me. Some of the type rating schools, like some flight schools out there, are ticket factories.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 16200 times:



Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 3):
A Global Express/G550 contract pilot will command $1000-1500/day for their services,

SIC will still command $700-$1200, depending on type. Contract flying on the side is awesome when you have a "home" company that you work for, paying for your $25,000 recurrents!

Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 3):
Whatever you do, resist the urge to undercut rate to gain time.

Yes, yes, and yes...you will be the butt of ridicule, and the subject of many men's room graphitti if you do such things. Alot of guys make their living purely on contract flying, and pay for their own recurrents- saying you'll go in and fly a G-IV for $200 a day hurts us all, even those of us who only do contract flying from time to time.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16099 times:

So there is no advantage of paying for a type rating like for A320 or B738?

25 Tb727 : Noooo. The only possible worthwhile time to do that is if you get a job at Southwest Airlines, you have 6 months to go get your 737 type if you get h
26 PGNCS : Quite agree that it's a change for the better at SWA. I agree on this, too. There may be parts of the world where buying a rating can land you a job,
27 EMBQA : Don't you need to have so many hours in a type to stay current...? With a list like that you'd spend all your time on check rides and recurrency flig
28 2H4 : If your goal is to stay current and/or proficient, sure. But I'm betting that isn't his goal. 2H4
29 PGNCS : He's a collector. He isn't current on anything but whatever he is flying at work and possibly an owned or rented GA plane. These ratings are for show
30 DeltaGuy : Alot of guys will do this at the airlines, even before retirement- bid a 737, off of the 777, just to have one more type. DeltaGuy
31 PGNCS : Yes they do. I think they're crazy to go through school for something they will never need, but everybody is different.
32 Pilotpip : It's jokingly referred to as "sport bidding" Not quite as fun now since most airlines are cutting their fleets to only four or five types from the doz
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