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Help With How To Read A Route  
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17146 posts, RR: 10
Posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14322 times:

In flightaware they always show the planned route for each flight, e.g todays BA282 (LAX-LHR) looks something like this: GMN4 EHF MVA BAM TWF DBS LWT 4902N
10827W YYN NCAE YYQ 6000N 09000W 6300N
08000W 6530N 07000W LAT9 DARUB 6800N
05000W 6800N 04000W 6700N 03000W 6500N
02000W RATSU UN610 BARKU UN610 STN UN615
LAKEY NUGRA BNN1B

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...2/history/20081124/0146Z/KLAX/EGLL

Can you put in that info somewhere that then show the planned route??


Work Hard, Fly Right
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14288 times:

GMN4 is the departure procedure.
The rest of the 3 and 4 letter codes are airports (to pass over) or navaids (such as a VOR).
The ####N #####W are coordinates to a particular point on the globe.
The 5 letter codes are waypoints (points created by the FAA).
BNN1B is the arrival procedure.

As for a map...there are plenty of programs out there (not aware of any free ones), but I don't know of any website that does it.


User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14241 times:

Quoting B747forever (Thread starter):
GMN4 EHF MVA BAM TWF DBS LWT 4902N
10827W YYN NCAE YYQ 6000N 09000W 6300N
08000W 6530N 07000W LAT9 DARUB 6800N
05000W 6800N 04000W 6700N 03000W 6500N
02000W RATSU UN610 BARKU UN610 STN UN615
LAKEY NUGRA BNN1B

GMN4 means it took the GORMAN FOUR standard instrument departure (SID) procedure.

See a list of SIDs for KLAX here:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAX

The GORMAN FOUR departure chart showing the procedure is here:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0812/00237GORMAN.PDF

The STAR is so there is a standardized way of departing the runway then getting out of the airspace around the airport and transitioning to the en-route (cruise) environment in terms of speed, altitude, and location.

Then it flew towards the EHF VORTAC (a navigational transmitter; this one named Shafter) at Bakersfield, CA.

Then it continued towards the MVA (named Mina) VORTAC at Mina, NV.

Then it flew towards the BAM (named Battle Mountain) VORTAC at Battle Mountain, NV.

(skipped a few entries here)

Then it flew towards 49 degrees north 108 degrees west (the latitude/longitude location) which is around the U.S./Canada border between Idaho and Sasketchewan.

You can use http://maps.google.com to pinpoint the exact spot based on the given lat/lon coordinates as they accept lat/lon.

...and so forth...

I think you should be able to find location information for all non-lat/lon names - but if not, let me know and I'll compile a full list.

The standard terminal arrival route (STAR) into LHR/EGLL is BNN1B, which is the Bovingdon BNN1B arrival route. Bovingdon is one of the major posts in which LHR arrival routes are funnelled toward and then held in 'stacks' waiting for their turn, and then subsequently gets fed by ATC into an orderly line marching towards the assigned runway.

Bovingdon handles traffic in the NW area, Lambourne handles NE area traffic, Biggin Hill handles SE area traffic, and Ockham handles SW area traffic.

You can find UK SID and STAR charts here:

http://www.ais.org.uk/

Click on the 'UK Aeronautical Information Publication (AIP)' link.
Click on the 'Aerodrome Index - Specific' link along the left side.
Click on the 'London Heathrow - EGLL' link
Click on the 'STARs via Bovingdon Chart' link to download the BNN STARs.

A direct link is:

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/cu.../ad/EGLL/EG_AD_2_EGLL_7-2-1_en.pdf

For the U.S., you can find navaid information -- as well as airport, routes, fixes, etc. -- by going to http://www.airnav.com then picking the appropriate tab.

For most of the U.S./Canada stuff, click on the 'Navaid' tab or go to http://www.airnav.com/navaids/ then enter the navaid name such as EHF. It will give you the navaid type as well as precise lat/lon so it can be plotted on maps.google.com if you like.

[Edited 2008-11-23 15:22:06]


DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14228 times:



http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PAT...W-54+14N+2+58W-EGLL&PATH-COLOR=red



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14222 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 3):

Wow, how did you do that??



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14222 times:

Looking at the past month's worth of previous flights, it looks like the route you're asking about might have been similar to these two. The track line isn't quite complete, but you can guess the rest...

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...2/history/20081103/0144Z/KLAX/EGLL

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...2/history/20081030/0146Z/KLAX/EGLL


User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1053 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14077 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Wow, how did you do that??

Go to the website

http://gc.kls2.com

You can enter the points there and create your own map  

The point NCAE between YYN and YYQ is actually airway NCA E so you'll need to get the fixes which define the airway, which I think is just YYN ELTAX YYQ.

Here's an image from a mapping program (PFPS) that I use - the NCA E is the dark red line near the US Canadian Border all the way to just west of Greenland - the flight only uses NCA E to Hudson Bay. The other dark red lines over England are the airways UN610 and UN615.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/misc/uf/536879898/phplku1Hv..jpeg

[Edited 2008-11-23 21:16:59]


Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13994 times:



Quoting Woodreau (Reply 6):
PFPS

Wow, that is one impressive map.

Quoting Woodreau (Reply 6):
Go to the website

http://gc.kls2.com

You can enter the points there and create your own map

Will try that.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13874 times:



Quoting B747forever (Thread starter):
6000N 09000W 6300N
08000W 6530N 07000W LAT9 DARUB 6800N
05000W 6800N 04000W 6700N 03000W 6500N
02000W

Just to expand a bit on this section, those are the North Atlantic Track (NAT) coordinates. Basically they are a set of coordinates that daily and are dependent on weather and overall flow of traffic. You can find the daily tracks here:

http://www.gofir.com/general/nat_tracks/index.htm

To elaborate here is one of the tracks for today (copy-pasted at 0300Z)

V STEAM OYSTR 55/50 57/40 59/30 59/20 ERAKA ETSOM
EAST LVLS 320 330 340 350 360 370 380 390 400
WEST LVLS NIL
EUR RTS EAST EDDL E175B EDDF E175B EHAM E175B EDDL E871A EDDF E871A
EHAM E871A
NAR N153C N155A-

Reading from top to bottom (bear in mind, I am a bit rusty)

The V means this is NAT "Victor", the first two waypoints leading to the tracks (found in a Jeppesen atlantic chart or similar) are STEAM and OYSTR the numbers in xx/xx format is your latitude and longitude, i.e. the first one is 55 deg. north/50 deg west, then 57 deg. north/40 deg west, and so on... ERAKA and ETSOM are the last two waypoints that will put you in the European airway system.

EAST LVLS are the flight levels the tracks are assigned to, i.e. 32000 ft, 33000ft, etc
Now this set of tracks is only meant for eastbound flights hence the "WEST LVLS NIL" message. At times you will see tracks in both directions at every other altitude. I.e. East on 320 340 360 and West on 310 330 350

IIRC the rest are route names for airports and getting into and out of the tracks.

If anybody sees any errors in my explanation please point them out!

By the way a great place for charts over the US is http://skyvector.com/

Cheers  wave 


User currently offlineAAH732UAL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13846 times:

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 8):

Actually......... most of these flights go above the tracks so they don't fly them. They also are way north of the NARs, so they don't use them either. As such, these are random tracks. Random tracks are used a lot in the airspace around the current NAT tracks. You don't have to file a NAT to fly across and most of the time, random tracks around the NAT track airspace are just overlays of the outdated ones. Another time you would file random is when your arrival at the system is before the NAT track goes valid or when your going the other way. A lot of the morning and mid afternoon flights going east cannot file the only eastbound NAT track and the ones for the evening rush won't become valid for long while longer.

So from the example above, this flight was routed through mid Canada then over the Ocean via a random track. Depending on where your random track is, you may be required to either fly below or above the NAT track altitudes. Most airplanes can't get above so they are forced to be below like 28,000, which is not a very good technique in trying to fly long haul flights  

Also you would prolly never see 2-way NATs. Its to unsafe and it would mess up the current SLOP and RNP seperation procedures. I don't know for a fact though but I have never seen a two-way track.

Hope this helps!

[Edited 2008-11-24 21:21:06]

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13742 times:



Quoting Woodreau (Reply 6):
Here's an image from a mapping program (PFPS) that I use

NICE!

When you get the chance, could you map EWR-HKG, using that feature? Would certainly appreciate seeing that!


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 13740 times:

...gotta love some of these trackers though.

According to this one:
DL55 flew more-or-less the Great Circle, until leaving Alaska's shores.... then apparently the pilots must've gotten the urge for some blini or something, because they made an immediate cut halfway around the world to Russia, and then hurried up and got back on the GC before anyone noticed Wink

http://tinyurl.com/5emakk


User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3842 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 13709 times:

Amazing how close to great circle track those transat routes can be...

Transpacs are all over the place dodging or following jetstreams.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
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