Allpress From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 73 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4983 times:
Hey guys and gals!
Ok so im coming up to my last year of schooling
and it keeps coming up that some people dont/cant
do the job they would love too. So i thought about
it and was wondering if there is any pilots out there
that don't love flying? they are pilots because its a job?
i was just intrigued =]
Airbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 403 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4976 times:
yes, there are a few of them, some people consider it a job and nothing more. These are often the types that complain and are not happy in this job.
I personally find it important to really have a true love for aviation and the art of flying, i always want to perform at my best and excel in my skills and knowledge, that's the challenge of piloting an airliner, and when i have my fifth early start of the week and the weather is crap, slot delays, aircraft changes etc and i start to complain i always try to think of how happy i actually am to be doing this job. And once airborne seeing the sunrise over the alps like i did yesterday......man.............no better feeling in the world. And i don't mind being away a few nights a week or even longer, it's a way of life.
But to the point, if you don't have this feeling and love, it's still doable but it'll be hard on you....
Anyway cam, good luck on you joining the happy pilots club!
PGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2631 posts, RR: 45 Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4861 times:
I know of very few people who started in the business without a love of flying (although I can think of one.) I know a much larger group of people who have done it for some time and are disillusioned with it. I know a few who actively dislike it, mostly for the lifestyle which is different than what they expected.
The truth be told, I understand all three viewpoints, but personally it's just a job. I don't enjoy being away from home over half the year, I don't enjoy time spent in hotels, and the list goes on. I do enjoy some flights, but if I had to choose a career over, I would definitely choose differently. I don't tell people I meet what I do unless they ask (then I try getting away with saying that "I work in the travel industry"), and I now fly because it's my job; I won't miss it when I retire.
My advice is that if you like to fly, fly for fun on your own time and choose a different vocation. If flying is your true avocation, hope that it stays that way for your career. Whatever you choose, good luck.
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3117 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4831 times:
Most of us get into it for the same reason anybody gets into any job. They enjoy it.
Sooner or later the glamor rubs off. Staying in hotels isn't fun. Preflighting in the weather isn't fun. Airport appreciation time isn't fun. Missing out on holidays isn't fun. You get the idea. Some don't last long because of this. I think too many think they're going to have some sort of glamorous movie star career. And to be quite honest, for the number of hours we put in we really aren't paid shit. How many jobs out there are you on duty, in uniform and representing your company for as much as 16 hours yet paid for only 7 or 8 of those hours? When you ask me about where the nearest Starbucks is in the terminal I'm not being paid. However I'm going to help you the best I can. Why? Because I consider myself a professional.
That being said, I really can't wait to get back from furlough. There are too many things about this job that you can't get anywhere else. How many out there get 16 days off a month? How many out there get have a window office with a better than 180 degree view? How many out there can say they experience the camaraderie that flight crews do on a 4 day trip? How many out there have 10 year olds out there thinking you have the coolest job in the world and aren't a firefighter or pro athlete?
Zappbrannigan From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4806 times:
Most truly love it when they begin. Like most things, it becomes routine after a while - and this even shows in the initial stages of your training. The first time you fly a circuit in a C172 and pull off a greaser of a landing, you think to yourself "there's NO way I could get sick of this!!". 100 landings and 50 hours of cross country later, you're thinking "I wish this leg was a bit shorter, I'm getting restless" - and you haven't even got a CPL yet.
Most airline pilots I know vary from "still truly love it" to "gets a bit mundane, but still enjoying it by and large". I've only ever met one guy that got completely sick of it - he quit flying the B767, changed career path away from aviation, and did some part-time General Aviation instruction on the side. Bit of a pity considering the work and money it takes to get there.
Ovrpowrd727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4743 times:
i'm a student pilot myself and i have heard feedback from pilots ranging from an addiction to a irritation of flying...some go in between like they can do 2 or 3 or maybe up to 5hrs at a time in the air but after that they'd rather be on the ground. i personally enjoy piloting whenever i get the chance but i think after a while it becomes routine, how could it not when you do it almost every other day?
Stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1644 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4735 times:
Truthfully I always wanted to be an airline pilot. Medical reasons prevented me from making a career of it past the PPL stages. So I became an A@P to be around airplanes. I never had the love for fixing airplanes as I think I would have flying them for a living. Even with all the long time airline pilots on here who are claiming it is down to just a job I can relate somewhat having worked in the airline industry for 20+yrs. But I always felt the pilots had the best deal (and they still do) in comparison to other airline employees but after 9/11 my outlook changed dramatically. I would NOT ever want to consider an airline pilot career today. These terrorists bast@#$s took all the fun out of flying at the airline level anyway. Along with the greedy CEO's. There was a time when airlines were run by airline people and not these bean counters we have today and believe it or not it was fun to work at an airline and was lucritive also even in non-pilot positions. But now too many hastles at the security checkpoints, too many other conditions have made flying even on a passenger level very unpalateable atleast for me. I don't fly today unless I absolutely have to and I used to LOVE flying. I drive virtually anywhere I have to travel now unless I can't. I even drove 1000 miles when the gas was 4 bucks a gallon. I can Jumpseat on FDX for nothing but I don't. So like others on here I have a job and I am very thankful to have it by the way and I work for an outstanding company unlike my former employer but at the end of the day it is my job I don't live for it.
Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1608 posts, RR: 11 Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4666 times:
I love aviation and working in the business. But I have worked in ground ops and as a pilot. Other than my desire to be in what I consider to be the best position in the business I don't really love flying. I enjoy it at times, but there's lots of stress too, especially flying on the east coast of the US. Hostility and incompetence in some companies' management and hostility from passengers makes it less enjoyable too.
The flying itself is sometimes fun and sometimes not. I will say it was far more enjoyable when I flew in Europe and in the Midwest in the US than it is on the east coast.
In the end it's just a job. I like the perks (jumpseating and virtually free non-rev travel all over the world) and I enjoy being captain but the rest of it I could do without and I don't spend much time with it otherwise. I have not flown a small airplane just for fun in about 8 years and have no desire to do so either.
All that negativity said, I do respect that many folks really love to fly and are lucky to have this job. I also know that if it were taken away from me I'd be pretty disappointed!
But it's time to move up. Eight years flying RJs is enough!
Saab2000 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2001, 1608 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4664 times:
Quoting Airbuster (Reply 1): And once airborne seeing the sunrise over the alps like i did yesterday......man.............no better feeling in the world. And i don't mind being away a few nights a week or even longer, it's a way of life.
Correct. I loved flying in Switzerland and seeing the Alps every day. And I loved the lifestyle. Over here in the US the job will consume a person. That is perhaps why I love it less than I should.
Northwest727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4619 times:
Lots of good input. I didn't realize that it wears off so much, I was always under the impression that once you love flying you always will. Granted, compared to my first flight as a child and where I am now at, the magic has wore off a little (because its no longer a mystery, I can fly myself if needed).
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2683 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4541 times:
As others have said, it loses some of it's magic after a while. But there are still plenty of days where it's worth it. The approach into LAX yesterday morning was a great example.
In some of the shallower areas of fog we could see the tops of palm trees poking out just barely above the top of the fog layer. We were following a 757 on the approach for 25L, and were able to pick out the approach lights and runway threshold though the hole the 757s wake turbulence created in the fog. Farther north it was unusually clear and I had the best view of downtown Los Angeles I've had in a long time. The air was glass smooth and everything was working perfectly on the aircraft. Just wonderful.
Yesterday was a good day. The kind of day that keeps me enjoying the job and makes up for a lot of the drawbacks. I seem to be having many more of those days out west than I did on the midwest and east coast.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2518 posts, RR: 48 Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4385 times:
it's the best job....you don't bring home any work...the scenery is always different...and the best best best part of it, you can't describe the thrill of flying and approaching and landing with any words...words are not enough, that's what makes it perfect...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3117 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4340 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 13): Funny how nobody mentions any "interesting" adventures with cute flight attendants...
If you're a gay man or 90 years old you might enjoy that aspect. However in most cases the few cute ones will end up causing a divorce and possible loss of career when they hit you with that nasty sexual harassment allegation.
They wouldn't give me the time of day because I only have three stripes on my shoulder anyway.
FLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4278 times:
Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 16): They wouldn't give me the time of day because I only have three stripes on my shoulder anyway.
You're not trying hard enough
I was just saying that because at the airline I did my internship with I heard TONS of real stories from pilots and F/A's themselves. In fact during my time there they even put out a bulletin to pilots and F/A's prohibiting, uhm, "intimate encounters" in hotel swimming pools. This was after an "incident" where a 3 striper (see, there is hope! ) and an F/A were caught having fun in some hotel and the airline was billed for the pool clean up.
This was with (insert the US's most reputable legacy airline name here)
I really loved the trips from employee parking to the terminal and vice versa. I purposely picked the ones with the most F/As... Just to hear the crazy things coming out of those F/As mouths was an experience in itself.
The good thing about said airline is that the F/As are probably the best looking amongst all the majors. All the new hires were very very good looking. Some of the senior ones weren't too bad either.
Anyways, I better STFU and leave before I get flamed by the resident F/As for being shallow and a pervert.
Nothing specific right now. Trying some different things, but almost nobody is hiring at the moment. I'd love to return to Europe but my work visa in Switzerland is no longer valid. I'd go to Cathay in a heartbeat if they'd hire me. I'd even consider Emirates, but even they've slowed down.
GIven the worldwide downturn in the economy I may be about as well positioned as anyone....
I am on the left seat, bidding lines (as opposed to being on RSV) and work for a company that has cash in the bank and a long-term contract with the 'mothership'. Assuming the mothership survives I think I am as safe as anyone right now. With that said, we have been flying a disturbing number of nearly empty airplanes lately. The passengers seem to have really disappeared. Makes life at the airport nice! But it could be a very bad omen for the future. We'll see.
I would love to get on at Delta and fly internationally again. But nobody in the US will be doing any significant hiring for several years - 'til the age 65ers start going.
Without the retirement age change the majors would probably all be hiring today, even with the downturn in the business.
AcNDTTech From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 338 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4176 times:
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 2): My advice is that if you like to fly, fly for fun on your own time and choose a different vocation.
AMEN to that! I was lucky! I was doing a long solo x-country, when I realized that this wasn't what I wanted to do for a living, before I spent thousands of dollars more. I love to fly. I enjoy doing it.....WHEN I WANT TO DO IT. If I had continued on to become a pilot for a career, I'm afraid that I wouldn't have enjoyed it. I still have a bunch of friends that fly professionally - some seem to enjoy it, but to most, it's just a job......the novelty wore off, shortly after they started getting paid.
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2683 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4161 times:
Quoting Saab2000 (Reply 18): Without the retirement age change the majors would probably all be hiring today, even with the downturn in the business.
I'm hoping the retirements will start to pick up late next year as those who are over age 60 start to hit age 62 and can collect social security. If the majors are smart they will leverage this and offer some incentives to get the old geezers off the seniority list.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
SpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4138 times:
Very interesting reading all of your comments and of great interest to me.
I am 24 and currently trying to save up money(with the help of a substantial inheritence I recieved) and considering applying to a flight school to do a "JAR-FCL Integrated ATPL(A) – APP FIRST OFFICER" course.
Reading some of the comments certainly has put big doubts in my mind as to whether spending around £60,000 to do it is worth it ,especially with the current world financial situation.
Whenever one thinks of a career as a pilot you have images of flying a 747 to far and distant exotic lands and its a dream occupation. Its interesting to hear the more real down to earth side of being a pilot like being paid only 8 hours after working 16 and constantly being away from home etc...
I had a bit of a misconception that all pilots must love their jobs and love flying. Its quite surprising to hear from real pilots that yes people do actually get bored and tired of flying for a living.
Out of curiousity does anyone know what the average wage, for example a F/O flying for Easyjet is or the average wage of a Captain for BA?
Airbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 403 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4021 times:
Well, this whole discussion has me thinking, not about the love of flying, because i am very much hooked to that...but to a different point, is there such a thing as the perfect job anyways? I mean, some people consider flying a job, but 99% of the people i know need a job in this world to survive don't they?
So the question actually ought to be IS BEING A PILOT A GOOD WAY OF MAKING A LIVING, and in that case, i would say in my situation that it's easy money, i love to do it and work about 3/4 days a week and i have tons of more time off than my friends which have office jobs earning half the money i get every month. Travel benefits and as stated above, i meet new great looking girls evey week!
BUT that is looking at it from my point of view working for one of the majors, it can also be hard work and a long career path getting to where you want to be, i have been pampered and lucky to get into a major 3 years after i left high school! And that isn't the reality for most of the colleagues out there.
ohw and btw, the alps looked terrific again yesterday at FL 350,
KAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 34 Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4017 times:
The key to enjoying this profession is taking time off and lots of it. If you fly more than 500 hours per year you're probably going to burn out within a decade. Drop trips, maximize vacatoin, bid lower value lines, and you will probably be happier than the workaholic. What good is the extra money if you have no time to spend it and no family who can enjoy it?