Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
How Many FA Work In The A330-200?  
User currently offlineRouge From Mexico, joined Mar 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8484 times:

Hi there!
Mexicana de Aviacion will start their long howls!
This is the first time we'll see an airbus 330 in a Mexican airline. I don't know how many flight attendants work in those planes in other airlines. Can you tell me how do yo do it lately for your long howl's in the A330-200?
Thank you!

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3308 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8455 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It depends on the airline's seating arrangement. For an airline with three classes, like LX, I think a typical long-haul flight probably has two for first class, 4 for business class, and 8 for economy class, so around 14 total. I know there quite a few members of flight crews here who can probably answer better, as I'm just guessing.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4052 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 8380 times:



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 1):
It depends on the airline's seating arrangement.

The minimum qty of F/As depends on seating. The normal legal minimum is 1 F/A for every 50 seats. So an A330 with 290 seats need 6 F/A.

But the actual number is much higher and depends on the service.


User currently offlineRouge From Mexico, joined Mar 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8360 times:

i know about the legal minimums, i guess some airlines that already have those planes assign the number of crew members depending on the service, that's what i want to know precisely.
Do you have seats to rest? or a kind of beds?


User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8333 times:



Quoting Rouge (Thread starter):
Mexicana de Aviacion will start their long howls!

Long howls... lol... Loud enough to be heard on the other side of the Atlantic or wherever they're flying their new metal?

 Smile

Kleinsim


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4841 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8325 times:

QF operates its Intl configured A332 with 9 crew (L1P, R1P, R1A, L/R2, L/R3, L/R4). Its configured 36J, 199Y. 4 Crew for J (incl CSM), and 5 crew for Y.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineRouge From Mexico, joined Mar 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8325 times:



Quoting Kleinsim (Reply 4):
wherever they're flying their new metal?

Mexicana will go to London, Madrid and Sao Paolo at the first time in 2009. That's a grate step to go for them! For long time they expected to do those flights, in fact they were waiting for China but Aeromexico took it...


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8317 times:



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 2):

The minimum qty of F/As depends on seating

Normally it depends on the number of doors, you need one for each emergency exit door.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8271 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 7):
Normally it depends on the number of doors, you need one for each emergency exit door.

The FAA requirement is based upon number of seats, and as Tristar mentioned, is basically one F/A for every 50 seats, or portion of 50 (i.e. 102 seats needs 3 F/As).

If the evacuation demonstrations for certification used more F/As then the FAA required by regs, then that number must be used. There are other exceptions etc...

It may well be based on number of exits in other countries, but I cannot imagine for example, a 45 seat RJ ever requiring 3 F/As, just because there are 3 exits.

I assume there is a correlation between number of seats and number of exits anyway, so there is an indirect relationship.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8242 times:



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 8):

I assume there is a correlation between number of seats and number of exits anyway, so there is an indirect relationship.

I know about the 50 seat rule (some countries also have a 36 seat rule), I always thought that was to capture high density configurations, and the number of floor level exits to capture the low density configurations. The minimum number of crew required to be the greater of the two requirements.

Think about the SQ A340-500 (total of 100 business seats installed), 8 floor level exists, we would need to have minimum of 8 cabin crew, one for each door. The rational is that you need a trained crew member to operate the door and activate the slide if needed. That does not apply to over wing exits like on a RJ or 737.

Are you suggesting the FAA would say you just need 2 cabin crew for a 100 seat A340-500 ? we always would have to go for the higher number, not lower.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4052 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8210 times:

We operate the B734 with 149 seats and 3 cabin crew on low business class routes.

User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8199 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 10):
We operate the B734 with 149 seats and 3 cabin crew on low business class routes.

I am uneasy hearing that sort of thing. Cabin crew are on the aircraft for the safety of the passengers, not for serving them food/drink. If you needed to evacuate, you could possibly have one good door not opened as not crew is there to open it.

This is the sort of wording we have in the regs here ...

Required Complement

The complement specified will be that calculated in accordance with Article 18(7)(c)
of the Air Navigation (Hong Kong) Order 1995, or for wide bodied aircraft one Cabin
Crew member per door that is designated an Emergency Exit, whichever is the higher.
In exceptional circumstances the complement may be reduced and will become that
specified in a Permission granted in accordance with the provision to Article 18(7).

Article 18(7)(c) says

(c) On a flight to which this paragraph applies, there shall be carried not less than one cabin attendant for every fifty, or fraction of fifty passenger seats installed in the aircraft:

So for us, on the A330, the minimum would be 8, becuase if the 8 doors.

[Edited 2008-12-05 06:19:39]


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8188 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 9):
Are you suggesting the FAA would say you just need 2 cabin crew for a 100 seat A340-500 ? we always would have to go for the higher number, not lower.

Well, this is where the number of F/As used in the evacuation demonstration could come into play. The airline must use the number of F/As used in the demonstration for the aircraft's "maximum seating configuration". So if the airline has other A340-500s in higher-density seating configs, say 310 pax, and they used 7 F/As during the demonstration, then they must use 7 F/As in a reduced seating configuration.

FAR Part 121.391

You cannot depart if ::

"(1) In its maximum seating capacity configuration with fewer flight attendants than the number used during the emergency evacuation demonstration; or

(2) In any reduced seating capacity configuration with fewer flight attendants than the number required by paragraph (a) of this section for that seating capacity plus the number of flight attendants used during the emergency evacuation demonstration that were in excess of those required under paragraph (a) of this section. "

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8185 times:



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 12):
Well, this is where the number of F/As used in the evacuation demonstration could come into play. The airline must use the number of F/As used in the demonstration for the aircraft's "maximum seating configuration". So if the airline has other A340-500s in higher-density seating configs, say 310 pax, and they used 7 F/As during the demonstration, then they must use 7 F/As in a reduced seating configuration.

The airline does not the "evacuation demonstration", that was done during certification, it is listed on the TCDS. The maximum certified seating was 375 pax for the A340-500, they would have had a minimum of 8 crew for the certification test.

So in the case of the A330, the minimum would still based upon the number of doors (except for a high density config and 4 type A doors)



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8180 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 13):
The airline does not the "evacuation demonstration", that was done during certification,

Yes, I was using 'they' too flippantly!

Quoting Zeke (Reply 13):
So in the case of the A330, the minimum would still based upon the number of doors (except for a high density config and 4 type A doors)

Well, not in the case of the FAA ... it just happens to be the same number of F/As as the number of doors in this example, based on F/As required using the 50 seat rule.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 8):
I assume there is a correlation between number of seats and number of exits anyway, so there is an indirect relationship.

Kind of like that.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineRouge From Mexico, joined Mar 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8140 times:



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 8):
It may well be based on number of exits in other countries, but I cannot imagine for example, a 45 seat RJ ever requiring 3 F/As, just because there are 3 exits.

I assume there is a correlation between number of seats and number of exits anyway, so there is an indirect relationship.

I agree with this totally!

Perhaps, now days in Aeromexico for Md's we can do it with 4 FA's with a minimum of 3
B737-700 with 4, min 3
B737-800 with 4, min 4
B767-200 with 7, min 6
B767-300 with 7, min 7
B777 with 12, min 10

our minimums have a relationship with safety (seat numbers and doors) and we can modify service depending on the number of crew members according with safety.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
I am uneasy hearing that sort of thing. Cabin crew are on the aircraft for the safety of the passengers, not for serving them food/drink. If you needed to evacuate, you could possibly have one good door not opened as not crew is there to open it.

Nothing but the truth, we all FA's have the training first of all for safety on board. But i think there's also a relationship between that and the service given, i guess most airlines have agreements that involve crew members for safety and service, i would like to know how is it in the airlines that already fly Long Howl planes.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8092 times:



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 14):
Well, not in the case of the FAA ... it just happens to be the same number of F/As as the number of doors in this example, based on F/As required using the 50 seat rule.

The average number of cabin crew on A330-200s around the world at the moment is 246, under the 50 seat rule that would mean 5 cabin crew, under the door rule, it still means 8 cabin crew.

Actual in service seating capacities :

Aer Lingus 272
Air France 219
Air Transat 343
bmi 220
bmi 198
Emirates Airlines 278
Emirates Airlines 237
Eva Airways 252
Jet Airways 226
Jet Airways 220
KLM 251
Kingfisher Airlines 217
Malaysia Airlines 229
Northwest Airlines 243
Qantas Airways 299
Qantas Airways 235
Qatar Airways 259
Qatar Airways 281
Qatar Airways 272
Qatar Airways 260
Qatar Airways 259
Qatar Airways 228
Swiss 230
Swiss 196

The above aircraft would be certified for a maximum of 375 or 406 passengers, depending on if Door 3 is type A or Type 1.


Quoting Bond007 (Reply 14):

Kind of like that.

That "relationship" is a function of the doors, for each pair of type A doors you are normally allowed to evacuate 110 pax. Type A doors doors are normally "slide rafts", and Type 1 doors just slides.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4841 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8041 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 16):
The above aircraft would be certified for a maximum of 375 or 406 passengers, depending on if Door 3 is type A or Type 1.

I was under the impression that all A332 had type 1 doors at doors 3, and that the longer A333 had all type A.

So far as crew levels it is often a requirement of 2 factors.... the 1 for 50 rule (or variations of that), and the number of doors/exits... (depending on the country etc there are variances there too however most require 1 FA per door but not exits). The 737 example I think gets away with 3 crew per 4 doors because the flight deck is so close to doors 1 that provided they weren't incapacitated one of the pilots could open one of the front doors.... or that perhaps L1 FA could open that door and then move across to open R1 whilst one of the pilots then continues at L1.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8039 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
I was under the impression that all A332 had type 1 doors at doors 3, and that the longer A333 had all type A.

No door 3 can be type 1 or type A for the 332 and 333. CX has both type 1 and type A doors on their 333s, they are not all the same.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17109 posts, RR: 66
Reply 19, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8025 times:



Quoting Rouge (Reply 15):
Long Howl planes.

The Mad Nitpicker strikes: It's "long haul", not "long howl".

Not making fun of you. I just wanted to point this out since "long howl" has already set you up for jokes. "Howl" is a sound made by wolves.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8012 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
however most require 1 FA per door but not exits

Although I don't know the FAA specifically mentions F/As per exit, if at all ... just number of seats, and not less F/As than used in evacuation demo. Of course, this would often equate to an F/A per door anyway, but certainly not on some aircraft.

Remember that the assumption is that window exits can be opened by pax (and assistance/guidance given by pax!) not F/As.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
The 737 example I think gets away with 3 crew per 4 doors because

From an FAA standpoint, I'm sure it's because 3 F/As satisfies the number of seats requirement, and the certifcation demonstration successfully evacuated the pax using only 3 F/As.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4841 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7955 times:



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 20):
From an FAA standpoint, I'm sure it's because 3 F/As satisfies the number of seats requirement, and the certifcation demonstration successfully evacuated the pax using only 3 F/As.

I know for example on a 747 SUD (743,744 etc) that there are restrictions on having pax up there if only 1 F/A. Maybe its an Australian thing, I know that so far as ICAO is concerned its based upon pax numbers, but it seems that a lot of juristictions require an F/A per door.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineRouge From Mexico, joined Mar 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7939 times:



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
The Mad Nitpicker strikes: It's "long haul", not "long howl".

I've made a mistake, thank you.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17109 posts, RR: 66
Reply 23, posted (5 years 11 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7932 times:



Quoting Rouge (Reply 22):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
The Mad Nitpicker strikes: It's "long haul", not "long howl".

I've made a mistake, thank you.

Easily done. English is a very tricky language to spell correctly, even for native speakers.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic How Many FA Work In The A330-200?
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
Need Info On The A330-200 posted Mon Aug 4 2003 23:12:04 by Cancidas
How Do Burners Work In A Jet Engine? posted Fri Jul 23 2004 02:58:47 by Ps76
How Many T/R On The A380 posted Thu Apr 28 2005 14:06:38 by JAGflyer
How Many Planes In The Air At The Same Time? posted Sat May 10 2008 02:49:09 by Teme1976
A Day In The Life Of A Long Haul Pilot/FA? posted Sat Sep 9 2000 02:00:49 by Sbbre44
Does The ND Of A Real Plane Work Like The In Fs? posted Mon Nov 6 2000 16:39:20 by Sushka
How To Screw A 727 Crew In The Sim... posted Tue Feb 13 2001 07:57:12 by JETPILOT
How Many Feet In A Nautical Mile? posted Mon Feb 4 2002 16:55:51 by Cosync
How Many Miles Of Wiring In A Plane? posted Thu Feb 21 2002 01:15:28 by Arsenal@LHR
How Many Fuelstops During The Day? posted Wed Apr 10 2002 07:31:12 by Geert

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format