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Concorde Questions(throttles And Engines)  
User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

I came accross this great cockpit video of a Concorde takeoff on youtube and I was wondering why when at takeoff do they advance the thrust lever from idle to takeoff power instantly?

Why do they not let the engines stabilize first for a couple of seconds first and then set the throttles to takeoff power?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnGhJSonKcI (2.35)


The second question is this. What doe's the metal "guard" in front of the fanblades of this Concorde engine do? I have also seen them on other aircraft engines too.

P.s I dont mean the flap that slows the air entering the engine. If you watch the start of this other video you should know what I mean.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=f-nEKYthtm8


Thanks in advance for any replys.  

[Edited 2009-01-21 06:45:41]

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5751 times:



Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Thread starter):
I came accross this great cockpit video of a Concorde takeoff on youtube and I was wondering why when at takeoff do they advance the thrust lever from idle to takeoff power instantly?

Because Concorde had a form of "throttle by wire", i.e. pre-FADEC type of computer (analogue?) that interpreted the throttle lever movements and took care of the details. I seem to recall that the swift movement from idle to take-off power wasn't just possible, it was preferred but I can't remember why.

I'm sure Bellerophon, GDB and/or VC10 will help us out shortly.


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Being a turbo jet with a relatively small diameter compressor [unlike modern big fan engines where you have to pause to allow the big fan to catch up] the Olympus could accelerate to take off power very quickly and any odd problems were catered for by the the electric throttle control system along with the primary nozzle which could alter the speed of the LP compressor compared to that of the HP compressor so overcoming any engine acceleration problems.

As Concorde was a noisy aircraft noise abatement proceedures had to carefully planned and as part of this the predictable and fast acceleration of the engines was built into the proceedures, in that if the electric throttle system was allowed to do this then the time taken for the engines to get to T/off power could be predicted whereas if the pilots opened them slowly the time was unpredictable. Therefore to allow the electric control system to control the engine acceleration, the throttles where advanced by the pilots at a faster rate than the control system would open them.

The metal vanes in front of the compressor blades were supports for the the engine shaft front bearings

Hope that helps

littlevc10


User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5664 times:



Quoting VC10 (Reply 2):
Hope that helps

It certainly does.

Thanks for taking the time to write a good detailed description.

 thumbsup 


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5635 times:
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Quoting VC10 (Reply 2):
Being a turbo jet with a relatively small diameter compressor [unlike modern big fan engines where you have to pause to allow the big fan to catch up] the Olympus could accelerate to take off power very quickly and any odd problems were catered for by the the electric throttle control system along with the primary nozzle which could alter the speed of the LP compressor compared to that of the HP compressor so overcoming any engine acceleration problems.

Sort-of-related question:

Given that Concorde had an electronic throttle control, why did it also have a flight engineer? Seems that in modern airplanes, electronic engine controls have largely replaced FE's in the cockpit.

Just wondering. Thanks....



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3305 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5631 times:
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Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 4):
Given that Concorde had an electronic throttle control, why did it also have a flight engineer? Seems that in modern airplanes, electronic engine controls have largely replaced FE's in the cockpit.

This, however, wasn't the only reason for having an FE. If you watch the video posted by the OP (which is amazing, btw), you'll see that the FE is responsible for ensuring the positioning of the intakes, for moving the center of gravity, and for various other small tasks that a computer could do but that must be guaranteed in order for Concorde to fly safely. The FE was a redundant system of sorts, but his role was crucial in order to allow the pilots to focus on their respective tasks.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10022 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5624 times:
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Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
This, however, wasn't the only reason for having an FE. If you watch the video posted by the OP (which is amazing, btw), you'll see that the FE is responsible for ensuring the positioning of the intakes, for moving the center of gravity, and for various other small tasks that a computer could do but that must be guaranteed in order for Concorde to fly safely. The FE was a redundant system of sorts, but his role was crucial in order to allow the pilots to focus on their respective tasks.

Cool, thanks for the response.

I figured there was a good reason for having the FE's. Just didn't know exactly what it was.

Can't watch the videos at work, unfortunately.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5627 times:



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 4):
why did it also have a flight engineer? Seems that in modern airplanes, electronic engine controls have largely replaced FE's in the cockpit.

It wasn't electronic in the modern "glass-cockpit" sense. It may have had an analogue FBW system, computer-controlled thrust and digital intake computers but there were still a lot of systems to monitor with "steam gauges", especially compared to contemporary airliners.


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5607 times:



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
The FE was a redundant system of sorts, but his role was crucial in order to allow the pilots to focus on their respective tasks.

I do not think you will find anybody who knows anything about the Concorde operation would agree with your statement as Concorde took 3 people to operate it and the F/E was not an add on he was as necessary as the other two.

Just to point out the intakes under normal conditions worked automatically and only under failure conditions did the F/E operate them manually. In fact to get the intakes to work automatically was one of the marvels of the design.

There were if I remember correctly 197 emergency/abnormal drills which included the 14 memory drills and all these drills were operated by the F/E, on top of his normal duties. He was not only expected to operate these procedures but also to understand the technical background to them so as to interpret their correct operation

Electric throttles did not kill off the F/E but rather the huge increase in computer capacity, the improvement in system design and reliability and the vast improvement in communications, which allow the crew to ask base immediately for technical advice

Anyway that is all history now , but was great fun whilst it lasted Big grin

littlevc10


User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3305 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5594 times:
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Quoting VC10 (Reply 8):
I do not think you will find anybody who knows anything about the Concorde operation would agree with your statement as Concorde took 3 people to operate it and the F/E was not an add on he was as necessary as the other two.

I didn't mean he was unnecessary compares to the pilot. I meant he was there as a redundant system for the aircraft's computers. As you said, the FE was very important to Concorde's safe operation, especially in case something went awry.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlineMoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5553 times:



Quoting SpeedBirdA380 (Thread starter):
The second question is this. What doe's the metal "guard" in front of the fanblades of this Concorde engine do? I have also seen them on other aircraft engines too.



Quoting VC10 (Reply 2):
The metal vanes in front of the compressor blades were supports for the the engine shaft front bearings

They were also guide vanes to clean up the airflow through the engine - you can see another set behind the front fan.

I have one in my living room  Smile


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5522 times:

SpeedbirdA380,

Most commercial engines spool up slowly for a number of reasons most notably the fact that for safety and simplicity reasons: Most civilian-engines fuel-control systems operate with a wider surge-margin. Safer it may be, and simpler than the alternatives, it produces a slower spool-up rate. Military (particularly fighter-jet and high performance aircraft engines) engines often use a fuel-control system which is geared to operate with a smaller surge-margin which allows a faster spool-up rate. To compensate for the closer surge-margin, more bleed valves are usually fitted to the engine (possibly, different scheduling on guide-vanes, and a more precise electronic fuel control system) to allow the pilot to rapidly move the throttles around without having to seriously worry about stalls and surges.

Other factors that play a role in spool-up rate has to do with
- The fact that some engines are naturally more surge-resistant than others which usually allows a faster spool-up rate
- The weight or weights of the shaft(s). The heavier the shaft is, generally the slower they respond. When you have twin-spool jets you have sometimes a case where one shaft responds behind the other.

The engine from which the RR Olympus Mk.593 (and later 610 model) was a derivative of, was the engine to power the TSR.2 which was a military, high-performance twin-engined strike plane the British were developing during the 1950's and 1960's which was largely cancelled for political reasons. Being a military design, it was built to have good aerodynamics: Stall and surge resistance (though technically it had a bunch of problems early on, but they were eventually fixed to the best of my knowledge), and reasonably quick responsiveness. The Mk.593 was a derivative version which to the best of my knowledge was a bit more powerful, and probably had various aerodynamic refinements not to mention a few modifications to the nozzles to reduce noise-levels a bit, but was still quite responsive, had good stall and surge resistance and such.

As other members noted, the Concorde utilizes an Electronic Fuel Control system which is basically a Fly-By Wire for engines, and as David L basically stated interpreted the throttle movements and took care of the small details. This essentially maximizes the performance and responsiveness of the engine while minimizing the odds of a surge occurring (not that the Mk 593 was not a surge resistant engine to begin with).

The Mk.610 by the way more or less was a version with an annular combustion chamber -- the 593 used a can-annular system which is not as efficient.


One interesting thing to note about the Concorde's throttles is that unlike most afterburning engines, where you push the throttles up to full power, and once you continue pushing the burners kick on -- Concorde's throttles work pretty normally up to the max-thrust point.

When the pilot want burners, there are four buttons which kind of look like the buttons you see on an old casette recorder. They're silver in color if I remember correctly. When those are pressed and the throttle is pushed to max the burners light (or if you push the throttles to the max power setting, then hit those buttons they light). There are at least 2 AB settings, a 20% afterburning set-up, and a Contingency setting which gives full burner which is to be used in emergencies such as a dual engine failure. Contingency power setting from what I've been told is only to be used in emergencies and actually can melt part of the nozzles.


If I'm wrong in anyway, please say so.


Blackbird


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4515 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5414 times:

Are the afterburner switches pushed down or pulled up to activate ?

I believe they were operated in pairs inflight to allow for a 'gentler' acceleration.

Were they ever operated inflight simultaneously and was that a really abrupt sensation.

Thanks a lot from a huge Concorde fan.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5401 times:



Quoting VC10 (Reply 8):
There were if I remember correctly 197 emergency/abnormal drills which included the 14 memory drills and all these drills were operated by the F/E, on top of his normal duties

Interesting Information.Pity the Aircraft no longer flies.But very educational never the less.Thanks.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5394 times:

Quoting Moo (Reply 10):
They were also guide vanes to clean up the airflow through the engine - you can see another set behind the front fan.

Makes sense. I thought it might be something like that as well.

Quoting Moo (Reply 10):
I have one in my living room

:D

I would love to have some memorabilia from a real Concorde in my room.

Quoting VC10 (Reply 8):
Anyway that is all history now , but was great fun whilst it lasted

  

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Blackbird
Reply 11,

Thanks very much. Great stuff.


Glad some of you liked the videos. You probably found the other video's but in case you didn't here are some more from the same flight.


Concorde Acceleration 0.90 mach to 1.7 mach
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KX9Wf87ShIE

Concorde Descent and Landing in JFK
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JL4cT05Ctck

Take off from JFK
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LRbKs3C_l-Y

[Edited 2009-01-22 00:43:00]

User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5361 times:



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
When the pilot want burners, there are four buttons which kind of look like the buttons you see on an old casette recorder. They're silver in color if I remember correctly. When those are pressed and the throttle is pushed to max the burners light (or if you push the throttles to the max power setting, then hit those buttons they light). There are at least 2 AB settings, a 20% afterburning set-up, and a Contingency setting which gives full burner which is to be used in emergencies such as a dual engine failure. Contingency power setting from what I've been told is only to be used in emergencies and actually can melt part of the nozzles.

The 4 reheat switches are selected up for reheat and for the take -off they were all pre selected to the reheat position so that as the engine accelerated the reheat would automatically ignite when egine conditions were correct [above 82% N1 seems to ring a bell]
The use of reheats increased the thrust by about 20% but the engine used approximately double the fuel flow to achieve this. 23,000 kgs per hour per engine I seem to remember
was a good ball park figure, so it was lucky that we only used reheat for about 60 seconds or so

For power loss emergencies during take-off [such as any single engine failure] as the failed engine wound down contingency power would automatically be selected on the other engines, or contingency could be manually selected by further upward selection on the reheat switches. Contingency power increaased the speed of the engine and so as reheat fuel flow was a % of dry engine fuel flow the reheat fuel increased as well.

Although an emergency power setting and the crew had to record every use of Contingency power as it did affect the TBO to say that there was a fear of it melting the nozzles is a bit extreme

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
I believe they were operated in pairs inflight to allow for a 'gentler' acceleration.

The maximum power that could be achieved with the throttles fully open depende on what power rating was selected, ie Take off, climb , cruise so for supersonic acceleration
"Climb rating" would be selected and the throttles were slowly advanced to their stops, at which point the reheats were selected in pairs so as not to spill the champagne  Big grin and there was a nudge, but to be honest at heavy weights it was hardly noticeable. However at light weights like when we did round the bay charters the nudge was very noticeable and the passengers loved it and the performance was exciting too. On one charter by mistake
[ and that is another story] all four reheats were selected at the same time and the old girl really lived up to her name of pocket rocket.


SpeedBirdA380,

Just as a matter of interest the F/E in your sequence of videos was the longest serving flight crew member on Concorde as he started his course in 1975 and retired off the old girl in 1999 some 24 years

littlevc10  cloudnine 


User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5352 times:



Quoting VC10 (Reply 15):
Just as a matter of interest the F/E in your sequence of videos was the longest serving flight crew member on Concorde as he started his course in 1975 and retired off the old girl in 1999 some 24 years

Very interesting. He must have loved his flying. This is also a guess but the Captain refers to the pilot flying in the right hand seat as Les. Is that the famous Les Brodie?

Quoting VC10 (Reply 15):
However at light weights like when we did round the bay charters the nudge was very noticeable and the passengers loved it and the performance was exciting too.

So were you are F/E on the old bird too?  Wow!


User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

Yes the co-pilot in this video was Les Brodie during his first stint on Concorde when he was a young man.He left to get his command on another aircraft and after a few years came back as a captain on Concorde. In answer to your second question yes I was, retiring off the old girl in 1998 which is hard to believe is now some 10 years ago .

littlevc10


User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5335 times:

Quoting VC10 (Reply 17):
In answer to your second question yes I was, retiring off the old girl in 1998 which is hard to believe is now some 10 years ago .

Fantastic. Thanks for your imput to this thread.

And yes I know it's a bit of an old cliche but time really doe's fly. - No pun intended. 

I cant believe roughly 5 and a half years has passed since she retired.

[Edited 2009-01-22 02:47:16]

[Edited 2009-01-22 02:47:45]

User currently offlineZarniwoop From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5310 times:

If you have an interest in Concorde I would recommend buying the DVD that the youtube clip was taken from. It goes into lots of detail and is about 4hrs long, so value for money.

User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5303 times:



Quoting VC10 (Reply 15):
at which point the reheats were selected in pairs so as not to spill the champagne Big grin and there was a nudge, but to be honest at heavy weights it was hardly noticeable.

On a couple of my flights there were people who were disappointed not to feel the nudges, even after the warning from up front. If you were leaning forwards or moving even slightly in your seat, I suspect you wouldn't notice them. I, on the other hand, was utterly focussed and never missed them.  Smile


User currently offlineSpeedBirdA380 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 539 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5261 times:



Quoting Zarniwoop (Reply 19):
If you have an interest in Concorde I would recommend buying the DVD that the youtube clip was taken from. It goes into lots of detail and is about 4hrs long, so value for money.

Yes I think I will. I did not realise you could get this but of course, this is a ITVV production. I already have a few of their DVD's of the 747-400 series,dont know how I missed this one over the years.  boggled 

I never got the chance(well finance to be honest) to fly in her so DVD's like this are great.


User currently offlineBlackbird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

VC-10,

The afterburners engage at only 82% N1? What's the the typical N1/N2 settings for takeoff?

How much of an increase in RPM is produced when contingency power is engaged?


BTW: Sorry about the comment about the nozzles melting, someone told me that.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4515 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

Thanks for the very informative and interesting information VC10, I wondered about the reheat switches and thought it might be possible to 'accidentally' select them if they were activated by pushing down !

Incidentally, did you fly the VC10 as well ? another one of my all time favourite aircraft. I remember flying on them from London to Hong Kong with numerous stops in the 70's.

A stop in Rangoon was particularly memorable, flying was truly an adventure back then.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineVC10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1411 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4906 times:

Blackbird,

The actual requirements for Reheat were as follows

1] Reheat or Contingency selected
2] N1 greater than 81% [ I was wrong by 1% never trust memory too much]
3] The throttles more than 10% open [ this was for the reject t/off conditions when you
[ did not want reheat with reverves power, NOW
that would burn out the secondary nozzles]

As you can appreciate it is difficult to remember actual engine figures 10 years after retirement,
and rather than give some figures from distant memory which could be wrong and misleading I can give you the limits and normal figures would have been some what less

N2 . N1 . EGT . Time

Contingency . 106.8 % 102 % 833 2.5 minutes
Take Off . 105.7 % 102 % 806 5 minutes




Max Q

Yes I was an all British aeroplane boy [well a bit of French to] with VC-10 and
Bristol Britannia on my licence which meant I could go any where in the world and be unemployed. The VC-10 was definately used as the equivalent to the stopping train as we very rarely went any where non stop unlike the flash B707 which went one long sector and stopped
It was quite normal on the VC-10 crews to do 3 sectors 12.5 hours duty days with a single crew,
All good fun though and a lovely aircraft, but glad I was young when I did it.

littlevc10 Big grin


25 Ex52tech : Great info. on a beautiful airplane guys. Thanks. Wish I could have worked on Concorde, and it's engines.
26 Max Q : VC10, You certainly flew some classic and unique British Aircraft, I am somewhat familiar with the 'Whispering Giant' myself as my father flew it in t
27 SpeedBirdA380 : Yes MaxQ,I totally agree with you. It must have been a wonderful time to have been an aviator. Especially since flying was not available to the masse
28 David L : Perhaps he flew me. I flew in a few RAF Britannias in the '60s. Yup, my favourite aircraft, too: Britannia and VC-10 because I spent so much time in
29 Blackbird : VC-10, I thought 100% was the maximum safe RPM...
30 Tdscanuck : Many engines are like that...100% is somewhat arbitrary, since the actual thrust is primarily a function of N1 speed, not N1 %. Some designs normaliz
31 JAGflyer : These "Nitrocharger" featuring the Concorde are very interesting, thanks for making us aware of them. Why do they retard the throttles substantially (
32 Starlionblue : For example, the Space Shuttle Main Engines go to 104.5% of thrust during take off. During emergencies, they can go to 109%, although failure probabi
33 VC10 : "3-2-1-noise" is the noise abatement initiation and at the noise call the F/E switches off the Reheats and retards the throttles to a setting pre-set
34 Blackbird : VC-10 I have some questions... 1.) Does 100% N1 or N2 with burners equate to 38,030 lbf or 38,050 lbf? Or does 105.7% N1/102% N2 + 20% Burner = 38,030
35 Tdscanuck : Almost certainly neither. Max rated thrust is usually measured on a test stand with a bell mouth inlet (it's essentially impossible to accurately mea
36 VC10 : Well to start with I only ever used the term 38,000 lbs of thrust the odd 10s are hardly worth the worry to an operating crew. The engine is rated at
37 Post contains images Cpd : Wasn't that the take-off power selection. Taking the throttles and advancing them very rapidly forward. It didn't speed up the engines necessarily th
38 Max Q : It's very possible David L, love that Convair 880 as well, another great machine from a golden age ! Happy landings, Max
39 Vc10 : No he was not the most senior I am afraid, but very near it. littlevc10
40 Blackbird : VC-10, Not to sound stupid, but it invariably will... I'm just wondering... if you have cold weather, why do you use a lower RPM? I figure you guys wo
41 Vikkyvik : I'm assuming due to the air being more dense on a colder day = less RPM required to generate takeoff thrust. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
42 Blackbird : Vikkyvik, Yeah, but I'd figure you'd want to get your money's worth and use full power anyway as you'd get more bang for your buck. Blackbird
43 David L : ... or more bucks for your bang. After a shaky start, Concorde was expected to make money or have the plug pulled. How much of a difference would it
44 Post contains images Cpd : From my limited knowledge, it's to do with the extra power not being needed to achieve the same performance. It's a set of four rocker switches on th
45 Vikkyvik : Can't say I understand what you mean. If you can have the same performance (or enough performance, as the case may be) with less wear on the engines
46 Vc10 : I think you are all missing the point an engine at full throttle operates to a limiting parameter and we will say at full throttle for take-off the li
47 David L : In my case that's always possible, however... I assumed Blackbird was talking about allowing those limits to be busted "for effect" and not worrying
48 Vikkyvik : Gotcha. That's what I thought you were originally stating. I guess my 2nd reply probably wasn't really a propos. That's what I thought Blackbird was
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