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Boeing 707 On A 5,900ft Runway?  
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9662 times:

In another thread I read about the Shah of Persia using his 707 into Samedan airport in Switzerland. That airport has a runway length of 5,900 ft (and on top of that difficult terrain, altitude of 5,600 ft).

I don't know which version of the 707 the Shah was using, but still this looks like a big bird for a small airport to me. How close does that get to the 707's performance limits? Maybe it only worked because this was a VIP version operating at less than MTOW? Maybe on the way out of Samedan the plane was severely range-restricted and had to make a fuel stop somewhere?

Any comments and explanation on how challenging such a flight must have been would be very welcomed.

Thanks

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZappbrannigan From Australia, joined Oct 2008, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9661 times:

Can't speak specifically for the 707, but that's plenty enough runway if the right conditions are met - not least of which being TOW. I've been up front on a B738 departure, exact same runway length, with a full pax load and a reasonable amount of fuel on board. I imagine that 707 wouldn't be anywhere near MTOW.

User currently offlineOldtimer From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9631 times:

Lasham Airfield in UK is 4 foot less than 5900' and DanAir used it as its maintenance Base and brought in and took off the old ex PA B707-320 with the JT4 engines. There was no runway lighting or aids other than a very old radar control. Never had any problems taking off, though we had to line our cars up one evening, as it ran late out of maintenance, to enable it to get airborne in the dark. This had a number of galleys and had 184 seats. Some very interesting take offs from LGW when fully loaded on the way to Canada.


Oldtimer, I should have known better!
User currently offlineSoku39 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1797 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9450 times:

In 1967 a Boeing 707 landing at Ohio State (KOSU), longest runway 5004 feet, mistakenly thinking it was Port Columbus. They actually flew it out, furthering the saying "sumbitch flew in, sumbitch'll fly out". Theres pictures of the incident at the FBO down there.


The Ohio Player
User currently offlineRaginMav From United States of America, joined May 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 9384 times:



Quoting Soku39 (Reply 3):
"sumbitch flew in, sumbitch'll fly out"

LOL if only that were always true! I flew into Glenwood Springs CO once, 3300 feet long, 6000 feet high. You can land any piston single there... but getting out was downright scary for me!

Seriously though, United has landed at the Council Bluffs, IA airport twice in years past, mistaking it for OMA. Once in a DC-4(?) and the other in a 727. Back in those days, the runway was ~3400 feet long. And guess what: sumbitch flew in, sumbitch flew out.


User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 964 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9095 times:



Quoting Mozart (Thread starter):
In another thread I read about the Shah of Persia using his 707 into Samedan airport in Switzerland. That airport has a runway length of 5,900 ft (and on top of that difficult terrain, altitude of 5,600 ft).

I don't know which version of the 707 the Shah was using, but still this looks like a big bird for a small airport to me. How close does that get to the 707's performance limits? Maybe it only worked because this was a VIP version operating at less than MTOW? Maybe on the way out of Samedan the plane was severely range-restricted and had to make a fuel stop somewhere?

By definition a VIP aircraft would be carrying a small number of passengers and we don't know how distant a destination it would have been flying to. Wind strength and air temperature also have an effect on takeoff performance. Dublin's subsidiary runway 16/34 is 6,500 ft. and has hosted all types up to and including An-124s and 747s with no difficulty, though this is of course an airport only 200ft AMSL.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24648 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9065 times:



Quoting Irish251 (Reply 5):
Dublin's subsidiary runway 16/34 is 6,500 ft. and has hosted all types up to and including An-124s and 747s with no difficulty,

But almost certainly not on longhaul nonstop departures.

When large jets used the downtown airport (MKC) in Kansas City prior to scheduled service moving to MCI's much longer runways in 1972, the longest 7,000 ft. MKC runway was marginal for types like 707s, as CO discovered in 1965 when a landing 707 aquaplaned on the wet runway, overran, hit an embankment and broke up, fortunately with no fatalities.







User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9465 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8958 times:

Every 707 has taken off from a shorter runway than that. The 707s were made in Renton Washington and the airfield has a 5300ft runway. Now on a test flight with no payload and a small amount of fuel is not a good comparison, but every Boeing narrowbody is able to takeoff of a 5,000ft runway.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8874 times:
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Every 707 made its first flight at the Renton Municipal Airport (KRNT). The runway length there is 5382 feet.



User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8836 times:

Not all that difficult to operate a B707 from an airport with a shorter runway, even at a higher altitude...and obstacles, provided the weight is adjusted for ambient temperature, AND depending on the specific model.
-138B, not a problem.
-320B (advanced cowl), also not a problem.
-320 (limited leading edge devices and straight-pipe engines), forget it.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4812 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8680 times:

I have taken a quick look at the load/range and runway takeoff length charts for the 707-120B and 707-320.

The -120B has a TOW of 230K lbs off a 6000ft runway. This translates into a 137 passenger load incl. baggage for about a 3000nm sector.
The 320 with JT4 -11,-12 is good for about 246K lb off 6000ft. translating into 141 passengers over a 1800nm sector.


User currently offlineIrish251 From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 964 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8567 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Quoting Irish251 (Reply 5):
Dublin's subsidiary runway 16/34 is 6,500 ft. and has hosted all types up to and including An-124s and 747s with no difficulty,

But almost certainly not on longhaul nonstop departures.

You're right, though I recall hearing of an Egyptair 707 freighter departing for Cairo some years back which used this runway - almost all of it, in fact!


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