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US A321 Engines  
User currently offlineGoDIA From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 96 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8457 times:

I've read that east US A321 use CFM engines, but the newer deliveries and the west US 321s have IAE engines. Will US standardize on one or the other or is this another example of "two airlines for the price of one?"


Military Jet Noise--the Sound of Freedom!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBkircher From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8286 times:

All further Airbus A320 family deliveries will have IAE engines.

User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8253 times:



Quoting Bkircher (Reply 1):
All further Airbus A320 family deliveries will have IAE engines.

That must really tick off GE, who (along with a certain aiframe manufacturer) helped provide financing in place for the HP/US merger...  Wink IIRC, at the time, they made a big deal about how it would provide untold billions in future GE and CFM engine orders.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineGoDIA From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7867 times:

I guess that US has its reasons for the engine switch. I would assume that the earlier aircraft (delivered with the CFMs) will be retained, but NOT be re-engined since that would cost a boatload of money! If I'm wrong, I'm SURE someone on A-net will enlighten me.


Military Jet Noise--the Sound of Freedom!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7708 times:



Quoting GoDIA (Reply 3):
guess that US has its reasons for the engine switch

My guess would be the fact that the IAE V2500 is the superior "Hot and High" engine, and now that US West is calling the shots, well, they kind of need the best performance possible out west in the summertime...  Wink I wonder if CFM vs IAE makes a big enough difference to avoid, say, a weight restricted departure from DEN or ABQ in the summer on a really hot day.

Quoting GoDIA (Reply 3):
but NOT be re-engined since that would cost a boatload of money

Definitely not. You just don't hear about re-engine programs on mainline airliners anymore, the last big successful one's I'm aware of are the DC-8 73's and UPS'es RR Tays in the 727's.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7698 times:



Quoting GoDIA (Thread starter):
west US 321s have IAE engines.

Since when did HP get A321s?



[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31679 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7697 times:

This is exactly the opposite of what occured at IC....Now AI.
V2500 were earlier used & later A319/20/21s were CFM56 equipped.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7682 times:



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 5):
Since when did HP get A321s?

Since merging with US, and the operation is basically HP now (they even use the "Cactus" callsign on the radio)  Wink



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineWn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1034 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7585 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
and the operation is basically HP now

I would actually say it's the other way around, but that's for a different topic...



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7398 times:



Quoting GoDIA (Thread starter):
... the west US 321s have IAE engines

Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??  confused 

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
My guess would be the fact that the IAE V2500 is the superior "Hot and High" engine

 checkmark  I have the shirt that explains how one engine on HP's fleet never had to be removed in 11 years, that's a lot to brag about. Quite an accomplishment and a very reliable engine.

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 5):
Since when did HP get A321s?

They didn't. IIRC, this order was made shortly right before the merger even started, or has started.

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 8):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
and the operation is basically HP now

I would actually say it's the other way around, but that's for a different topic...

Actually, Parker is in control, making it an "HP run" company using the US brand name.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1243 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7343 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??

In my book, if an aircraft is operated by a West crew. It's a West aircraft.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7331 times:



Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 10):
In my book, if an aircraft is operated by a West crew. It's a West aircraft.

The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineWn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1034 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7190 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):

The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.

You do understand that the crews are still split between east and west, correct?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Actually, Parker is in control, making it an "HP run" company using the US brand name.

And yet we've picked up the higher costs, union representation, and policies of the pre-merger US Airways. I know that a part of the HP way of doing things still lingers, but I'd say that the bulk of our operation is run like the east.



Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineUSA9195 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7147 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.

The new west A-321 ship 510 is N510UW, and is a west aircraft. The first 3 321's are 507AY 508AY and 509AY. So it is starting to intertwine even more. The only way to really tell is the flight number


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7073 times:



Quoting Wn676 (Reply 12):
You do understand that the crews are still split between east and west, correct?

 sarcastic 

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 12):
And yet we've picked up the higher costs, union representation, and policies of the pre-merger US Airways. I know that a part of the HP way of doing things still lingers, but I'd say that the bulk of our operation is run like the east.

"we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....

Quoting USA9195 (Reply 13):
The new west A-321 ship 510 is N510UW, and is a west aircraft.

Weird.... All of the west aircraft end in AW....

Are any of the east crews using this 321??



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineWn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1034 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7061 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
Are any of the east crews using this 321??

No, hence why we call it a "West" aircraft.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
"we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

[Edited 2009-04-15 19:17:34]


Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6998 times:



Quoting Wn676 (Reply 15):
No, hence why we call it a "West" aircraft.

I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineTheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6966 times:

The registration as UW is simply to keep type-commonality with the rest of the 321 fleet.
Now, I am not sure why the first 3 321s delivered to US have an AY registration, because at this point all US widebodies have an AY reg.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6947 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW.

Not all of them. 507-509 end in AY, because AW was already taken. The rest will end in UW for commonality.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

With all due respect, your book doesn't count for much in this case.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations

An interesting side note: when a "UW" plane goes into the paint shop, it gets re-registered as "US".

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.

May I ask why registration is the driving factor for you?

Quoting TheGMan (Reply 17):
Now, I am not sure why the first 3 321s delivered to US have an AY registration, because at this point all US widebodies have an AY reg.

In an internal memo, it was explained that when we ordered the first few "west" 321s with IAE engines, 507-509AW were already assigned, and we wanted to keep the regs as close as possible, and also since we have several aircraft with AY regs. The rest will be delivered with UWs for commonality.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
"we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....

I can assure you he also works for US.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineKparke777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6327 times:
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Anyone know the thrust rating on the CFM and IAE 321's?

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6215 times:



Quoting Kparke777 (Reply 19):
Anyone know the thrust rating on the CFM and IAE 321's?

It really varies from operator to operator or type to type. One CFM might not have the same thrust rating as another CFM on the same type.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineWagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6049 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.

Since when do registrations have anything to do with who operates an aicraft? The "West" aircraft only have reg's with AW because they were originally purchased and operated by an airline called "America West". You may have noticed there is no airline with that name anymore. Those reg's still exist because there is no real reason to change them. The airplanes still fly either way. The airline changed some "East" reg's to fit within a global fleet numbering system, and decided to use AY. Its not surprising that new aicraft delivered to either side would have a reg ending in AY, UW or anything else that roughly goes along with the name of the airline.

Whether you like it or not, those A321s with IAE engines are based in PHX/LAS, operate with West Crews, operate West routes, and fly with West flight numbers. And lo and behold, another new A321 was just delivered to the East side AFTER those West A321s, and it has CFMs! Just like the other 2 or 3 A321s delieverd to the East last year. And all of those East A321s are numbered in the 190 series reg's. Amazingly enough, they all operate out of PHL/CLT on east routes, with east crews and east flight numbers.



I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6008 times:



Quoting Wagz (Reply 21):

You should know, I worked for HP. You do not need to lecture me. But I thank you for said lecture when it wasn't necessary and some of what you said was a bit uncalled for.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5921 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??   



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.

You're quite argumentative. They're right - the current IAE ones are being operated in the west and not crossing over.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
One CFM might not have the same thrust rating as another CFM on the same type.

US's CFM56-5B3s are rated by the FAA at 32,000 lbs thrust. US's IAE V2533-A5 SelectOnes are rated at 33,000.

NS


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5911 times:



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
US's CFM56-5B3s are rated by the FAA at 32,000 lbs thrust. US's IAE V2533-A5 SelectOnes are rated at 33,000.

I was speaking in general. Airlines can derate their thrust ratings as they deem necessary for the benefit of their operations.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
25 Trex8 : maybe IAE just gave them a better price????
26 Crjflyer35 : Wow, a whole lot of animosity running around this thread.... I'm a ramp team lead for US here in PHX, the new 321's with IAE engines (which look sooo
27 AirframeAS : It would have made more sense, IMHO, if the new 21's were in the AW registration.
28 Crjflyer35 : I agree, but again, I belive it was an issue of availability...
29 Post contains links and images AirframeAS : That MIGHT be an issue, however... AS use to have the 300's in the AS format on the 727's back in the early 90's.. Those same numbers now are on the
30 Wn676 : Those regs would have conflicted with East ship numbers. I think they might use the old regs from the East 737-300 fleet though, as most if not all o
31 Crjflyer35 : Correct, and also remember these are West orders that the East operations never had their hands in, therefore were never destined to have a NxxxUS re
32 AirframeAS : Now that I think about it, that is a pretty good theory. I wonder if this is really the case. If so, then I'll accept it as that.
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