GoDIA From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 96 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6798 times:
I've read that east US A321 use CFM engines, but the newer deliveries and the west US 321s have IAE engines. Will US standardize on one or the other or is this another example of "two airlines for the price of one?"
Bkircher From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 184 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6627 times:
All further Airbus A320 family deliveries will have IAE engines.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6594 times:
Quoting Bkircher (Reply 1): All further Airbus A320 family deliveries will have IAE engines.
That must really tick off GE, who (along with a certain aiframe manufacturer) helped provide financing in place for the HP/US merger... IIRC, at the time, they made a big deal about how it would provide untold billions in future GE and CFM engine orders.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
GoDIA From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6208 times:
I guess that US has its reasons for the engine switch. I would assume that the earlier aircraft (delivered with the CFMs) will be retained, but NOT be re-engined since that would cost a boatload of money! If I'm wrong, I'm SURE someone on A-net will enlighten me.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6049 times:
Quoting GoDIA (Reply 3): guess that US has its reasons for the engine switch
My guess would be the fact that the IAE V2500 is the superior "Hot and High" engine, and now that US West is calling the shots, well, they kind of need the best performance possible out west in the summertime... I wonder if CFM vs IAE makes a big enough difference to avoid, say, a weight restricted departure from DEN or ABQ in the summer on a really hot day.
Quoting GoDIA (Reply 3): but NOT be re-engined since that would cost a boatload of money
Definitely not. You just don't hear about re-engine programs on mainline airliners anymore, the last big successful one's I'm aware of are the DC-8 73's and UPS'es RR Tays in the 727's.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5934 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 6023 times:
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5739 times:
Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4): My guess would be the fact that the IAE V2500 is the superior "Hot and High" engine
I have the shirt that explains how one engine on HP's fleet never had to be removed in 11 years, that's a lot to brag about. Quite an accomplishment and a very reliable engine.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5672 times:
Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 10): In my book, if an aircraft is operated by a West crew. It's a West aircraft.
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.
Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 847 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5531 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.
Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.
You do understand that the crews are still split between east and west, correct?
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9): Actually, Parker is in control, making it an "HP run" company using the US brand name.
And yet we've picked up the higher costs, union representation, and policies of the pre-merger US Airways. I know that a part of the HP way of doing things still lingers, but I'd say that the bulk of our operation is run like the east.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
USA9195 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5488 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.
Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.
The new west A-321 ship 510 is N510UW, and is a west aircraft. The first 3 321's are 507AY 508AY and 509AY. So it is starting to intertwine even more. The only way to really tell is the flight number
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5414 times:
Quoting Wn676 (Reply 12): You do understand that the crews are still split between east and west, correct?
Quoting Wn676 (Reply 12): And yet we've picked up the higher costs, union representation, and policies of the pre-merger US Airways. I know that a part of the HP way of doing things still lingers, but I'd say that the bulk of our operation is run like the east.
"we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....
Quoting USA9195 (Reply 13): The new west A-321 ship 510 is N510UW, and is a west aircraft.
Weird.... All of the west aircraft end in AW....
Are any of the east crews using this 321??
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Wn676 From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 847 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5402 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14): Are any of the east crews using this 321??
No, hence why we call it a "West" aircraft.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14): "we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....
Not quite sure what you're getting at here.
[Edited 2009-04-15 19:17:34]
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5339 times:
Quoting Wn676 (Reply 15): No, hence why we call it a "West" aircraft.
I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
TheGMan From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 606 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5307 times:
The registration as UW is simply to keep type-commonality with the rest of the 321 fleet.
Now, I am not sure why the first 3 321s delivered to US have an AY registration, because at this point all US widebodies have an AY reg.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5288 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): The new 321's have a registration ending in UW.
Not all of them. 507-509 end in AY, because AW was already taken. The rest will end in UW for commonality.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.
With all due respect, your book doesn't count for much in this case.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations
An interesting side note: when a "UW" plane goes into the paint shop, it gets re-registered as "US".
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16): I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.
May I ask why registration is the driving factor for you?
Quoting TheGMan (Reply 17): Now, I am not sure why the first 3 321s delivered to US have an AY registration, because at this point all US widebodies have an AY reg.
In an internal memo, it was explained that when we ordered the first few "west" 321s with IAE engines, 507-509AW were already assigned, and we wanted to keep the regs as close as possible, and also since we have several aircraft with AY regs. The rest will be delivered with UWs for commonality.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14): "we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....
Kparke777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 39 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4668 times:
Anyone know the thrust rating on the CFM and IAE 321's?
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4556 times:
Quoting Kparke777 (Reply 19): Anyone know the thrust rating on the CFM and IAE 321's?
It really varies from operator to operator or type to type. One CFM might not have the same thrust rating as another CFM on the same type.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Wagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 504 posts, RR: 18 Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4390 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.
Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.
Since when do registrations have anything to do with who operates an aicraft? The "West" aircraft only have reg's with AW because they were originally purchased and operated by an airline called "America West". You may have noticed there is no airline with that name anymore. Those reg's still exist because there is no real reason to change them. The airplanes still fly either way. The airline changed some "East" reg's to fit within a global fleet numbering system, and decided to use AY. Its not surprising that new aicraft delivered to either side would have a reg ending in AY, UW or anything else that roughly goes along with the name of the airline.
Whether you like it or not, those A321s with IAE engines are based in PHX/LAS, operate with West Crews, operate West routes, and fly with West flight numbers. And lo and behold, another new A321 was just delivered to the East side AFTER those West A321s, and it has CFMs! Just like the other 2 or 3 A321s delieverd to the East last year. And all of those East A321s are numbered in the 190 series reg's. Amazingly enough, they all operate out of PHL/CLT on east routes, with east crews and east flight numbers.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4349 times:
You should know, I worked for HP. You do not need to lecture me. But I thank you for said lecture when it wasn't necessary and some of what you said was a bit uncalled for.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4262 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9): Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11): The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16): I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.
You're quite argumentative. They're right - the current IAE ones are being operated in the west and not crossing over.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20): One CFM might not have the same thrust rating as another CFM on the same type.
US's CFM56-5B3s are rated by the FAA at 32,000 lbs thrust. US's IAE V2533-A5 SelectOnes are rated at 33,000.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 26 Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4252 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23): US's CFM56-5B3s are rated by the FAA at 32,000 lbs thrust. US's IAE V2533-A5 SelectOnes are rated at 33,000.
I was speaking in general. Airlines can derate their thrust ratings as they deem necessary for the benefit of their operations.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
25 Trex8: maybe IAE just gave them a better price????
26 Crjflyer35: Wow, a whole lot of animosity running around this thread.... I'm a ramp team lead for US here in PHX, the new 321's with IAE engines (which look sooo
27 AirframeAS: It would have made more sense, IMHO, if the new 21's were in the AW registration.
28 Crjflyer35: I agree, but again, I belive it was an issue of availability...
29 AirframeAS: That MIGHT be an issue, however... AS use to have the 300's in the AS format on the 727's back in the early 90's.. Those same numbers now are on the
30 Wn676: Those regs would have conflicted with East ship numbers. I think they might use the old regs from the East 737-300 fleet though, as most if not all o
31 Crjflyer35: Correct, and also remember these are West orders that the East operations never had their hands in, therefore were never destined to have a NxxxUS re
32 AirframeAS: Now that I think about it, that is a pretty good theory. I wonder if this is really the case. If so, then I'll accept it as that.
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From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 96 posts, 
IIRC, at the time, they made a big deal about how it would provide untold billions in future GE and CFM engine orders.
From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, 
From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, 
From Bosnia and Herzegovina, joined Jun 2005, 847 posts, 
I have the shirt that explains how one engine on HP's fleet never had to be removed in 11 years, that's a lot to brag about. Quite an accomplishment and a very reliable engine.
From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1181 posts, 
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