C5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10726 times:
Do airlines use FULL flap landings? The trips I have flown on civilian-wise i watch when they put the flaps down, and I have never seen them down fully, they are more like halfway. Any ideas or do they always use them full?
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BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 16326 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10696 times:
I think that most, if not all airliners can, but only some do. A 737 for example can use flaps 40 to land, but 30 is used most often if I'm not mistaken. I think that generally there are several flaps settings that can be used on landing, or takeoff for that matter.
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Eghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10631 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 2): Some do, some don't. It depends on the airline, the airplane, and the situation.
Pilots seem to use a lot of flap when landing in San Diego. The runway is short with a displaced threshold, there are obstructions all around and water at the end of the runway. There are also no high-speed turnouts from the runway. I have seen may flights go-around at this airport as well.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 22417 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10542 times:
Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 4): Wouldn't it make sense to use full flap in order to make sure you are going slow when you cross the threshold, then you wouldn't have to use as much brake nor t/r right?
Yes. It also increases drag, which increases the thrust required on final, which increases noise (makes nearby residents unhappy) and fuel burn (which makes the airline bean counters unhappy). So if you have a nice long runway where you don't need to stop in a hurry, it might make sense to use a lower flap setting.
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ZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 2006 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10472 times:
The DC-10 actually has an impressive amount of flap! If by full flap you mean 90 degrees, no aircraft (that I know of) uses that much. Commonly the most you will see is 60 and those are rarely used. It will depend on the situation as to how much to use.
Stillageek From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10262 times:
On the CRJ700 we always use Flaps 45 for landing...every landing...every runway...every condition. On the ERJ's at my airline they are approved for reduced flap landings...I think they can land at flaps 22 instead of 45.
Modesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2870 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10154 times:
At my airline, we generally use full flaps (flaps 45) when landing the EMB145. At one point, the airline started an initiative to use flaps 22 landings as a method to save fuel with lower power settings on final approach. However, brakes wear obviously increased with the higher approach and landing speeds so eventually, the policy reverted to the original flaps 45 practice. Now, we mostly use flaps 45, but certain circumstances like strong crosswinds or high potential for windshear may dictate a flaps 22 landing.
I sit in a lot of 737 and 757 jumpseats and as others have said, most 737 landings use flaps 30 while the full flap setting is flaps 40. The maximum 757 flaps setting is flaps 30 and most 757 landings that I've seen use this setting.
As a general rule of thumb, most operations dictate full or close to full flap settings for landing, but operational considerations may dictate otherwise.
Vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 11316 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9984 times:
Quoting Eghansen (Reply 3): Pilots seem to use a lot of flap when landing in San Diego. The runway is short with a displaced threshold, there are obstructions all around and water at the end of the runway. There are also no high-speed turnouts from the runway. I have seen may flights go-around at this airport as well.
I wouldn't classify SAN as having a "short" runway. From the displaced threshold, you still have over 7500 feet of landing distance. With a typical 950 foot glide, that's 6500 feet of landing rollout distance.
Airliners, for most intents and purposes, can stop on a dime if needed. That's relatively speaking - taking into consideration how little actual braking surface they have compared to their weight. Airliner wheel brakes are worked extremely hard, and they do an amazing job (consider how much energy they have to absorb to actually stop an airplane).
Check out the FAR landing distances for the 747-400 (starts on the 36th page of the PDF):
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2265 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9968 times:
First are you sure you could tell flaps 35 from flaps 50 (MD-11)? Second for us flaps 50 is more stress on the flaps and airframe and only reduces ldg roll by about 500'. You don't use 50 flaps in high or gusty winds and Vapp isn't much lower. For CATIII you have slightly better angle of vision because of lower deck angle and is recommended.
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9717 times:
Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 22): Interesting. What's the reasoning behind that? Just the fact that they pack it to the gills full of cargo?
The more cargo they carry, the more revenue that's generated. That's why there are tech stops enroute when the same type aircraft can carry a pax load non-stop. Cargo doesn't care about enroute time.....