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A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.  
User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 20391 times:

All,

I recently had the pleasure of travelling a medium haul stretch in a Latin American owned / operated A320 and I noticed that 1 of the aerodynamic parts under the wing (don´t know their technical name, sorry!) vibrated excessively while the one next to it hardly moved.

With "parts" I mean the oval pieces suspended from the wing that are obviously shown in the picture below.

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A320


Shouldn't they vibrate the same throughout?

Furthermore, they both have these "antenna-like" bits at the end, what are they for please?
The angle of the one on the right is definitely "out", does this matter?

If I sound ignorant I don´t argue, but please look at it this way:

"To be an aviation expert lurking around on sites like this means educating others is one of your core responsibilities". Consider it a good deed.
I don´t work in aviation and am just interested to learn a lot more about it!

Any constructive comments are more than welcome!

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11

89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 20407 times:

The canoe fairing on the further right under the flap is where the flap track jackscrews are. The fairing that is to the left of it, that is just a fairing that goes from the engine pylon through the underneath of the flaps. The vibration mostly comes from the canoe fairing than the one from the engine pylon because there is nothing in front of it under the wing.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Thread starter):
Furthermore, they both have these "antenna-like" bits at the end, what are they for please?

Static wicks, to dissipate the static electricity from the friction of the aircraft vs. the airflow.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Thread starter):
The angle of the one on the right is definitely "out", does this matter?

It doesn't matter at all.


I hope this answers your questions.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 20389 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):

If I could add.....my two greatly devalued American cents...
The canoe fairings are largely attached to the flap carriage and not to the wing itself with the exception on some aircraft a small front section will be connected to the wing for streamlining but it would not be evident as a passenger (more obvious on 747's). On a few occassions canoes have dropped off wings while in flight . On the A320 I have seen the top section on the trailling edge come off. Doesn't effect flight but regulations exist as far as a plane flying without one. Typically constructed from honeycomb material, the canoes on n/g 737's are only 1/4" thick. They damage easily if a gound vehicle hits one. The angle that static discharge wicks are mounted usually reflects the typical airflow evident at that location.


User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20293 times:

Thanks AirframeAS & soon 7X7,

That made it clear indeed.
The static wicks (never heard of ´m before) only dissipate the electricity.
What would happen if they would not be fitted?
Would this be dangerous to ground staff at all?


The yellow painted bracket on top is for maintenance purposes I imagine (lifting etc), correct?
Painted yellow to avoid any punter tripping over it.

Cheers,


Rutger


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 20215 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
What would happen if they would not be fitted?

You would have so much static build up that would harm the airplane significantly.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
Would this be dangerous to ground staff at all?

No, since the aircraft on the ground would be grounded anyway. But not always.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
The yellow painted bracket on top is for maintenance purposes I imagine (lifting etc), correct?
Painted yellow to avoid any punter tripping over it.

The yellow painted bracket is for a cord to be attached to from the emergency exits in case of an emergency to prevent pax from going over the forward of the wing. The person sitting in the emergency exit row would pull that cord and attach it to the yellow bracket. When I go back to work next week, I will take some pics to illustrate my point better for you.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
.....only dissipate the electricity.

.....while in-flight.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 20144 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
The static wicks (never heard of ´m before) only dissipate the electricity.
What would happen if they would not be fitted?

Most noticeable effect would be loss of radio communication. The voltage on the airplane doesn't really do anything by itself, since the whole plane is at the same potential. But the radio antennas use the fuselage as their ground plane and, if that charges up, the antennas quit working.

Tom.


User currently offlineCaryjack From United States of America, joined May 2007, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20117 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Thread starter):
"To be an aviation expert lurking around on sites like this means educating others is one of your core responsibilities". Consider it a good deed.
I don´t work in aviation and am just interested to learn a lot more about it!

Nicely put. You'll find lots of good deed-doers around here.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
Doesn't effect flight but regulations exist as far as a plane flying without one.

I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 5):
But the radio antennas use the fuselage as their ground plane and, if that charges up, the antennas quit working.

I didn't realize that.

Thanks,  smile 
Cary


User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9397 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20100 times:
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Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
Doesn't effect flight but regulations exist as far as a plane flying without one.

I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

 checkmark 

That's their primary function - to provide an aerodynamic housing for the flap mechanisms. Otherwise you'd incur a (probably significant) drag penalty.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18691 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 20088 times:



Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):

I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

This is actually more involved than you might think. The canoes factor into the "area rule." This is to prevent the cross-section of the aircraft from changing too quickly at the front and rear of the wings. The canoes are actually anti-shock bodies, which is why they are so large and bulbous. They don't *need* to be that big, but they help the aerodynamics a lot.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16908 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 20083 times:



Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):
I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

Quite. Also the canoes protect the flap mechanisms somewhat from dirt, snow, ice and so forth on the ground.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 19995 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
When I go back to work next week, I will take some pics to illustrate my point better for you.

That would be appreciated, Airframe A.S! A photo speaks a 1000 words after all!
I´m surprised because as far as I can remember not all planes have this.
But yep, I can see the danger of panicking passengers jumping off the forward end of the wing with the turbines not having come to a complete stop............

I don´t think this is explained sufficiently on all safety cards, of have I just missed it??

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
On a few occassions canoes have dropped off wings while in flight . On the A320 I have seen the top section on the trailling edge come off.

I assume it´s not "normal" for bits to drop off.
Imagine the damage / harm it can cause on the ground!
If this were to happen is the plane taken out of service after arrival at its "home base / maintenance base" to have this fixed? Or don´t airlines have these canoes in stock and do planes continue flying until the time is convenient to do something about it?

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
They damage easily if a gound vehicle hits one.

Does this happen often?
Isn´t "not hitting multi million dollar planes" absolute priority on any apron / airport platform?
Ah well, I suppose the stress and time limits cause people to cut corners, happens in all industries. "Safety safety safety first" until it costs time / money...........now one is suddenly supposed to bend the rules to get the job done on time! At least that is what I see in the line of work I´m in! I bet a lot of accidents happened because of mistakes of people under pressure from superiors who are under pressure from their superiors / clients etc.

Cheers for all that info, people!

Ecuadorian MD11


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 19990 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
I don´t think this is explained sufficiently on all safety cards, of have I just missed it??

Looking at our safety card, it does actually illustrate the rope I am talking about. Also, it does show the layout of the aircraft on where to go when exiting through the over-wing exits as follows: On the ground, go to the aft of the wing down the slide. Over water: Go outboard of the wing towards the wingtip fence and go off the leading edge of the wing.

But I will still take more pictures for you and post them here next week.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 19981 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):

I have been at a local major airport near where I live and before runway changes the ops people will conduct a "runway sweep"...they do find access covers,and other parts on the runway...some sizable.

Ramp rash as it is called are ground vehicles hitting the aircraft. some of the box type catering trucks are the biggest violators. Look at the canoes, wing tips and blade antennas and nose gear doors on European carriers planes...they are painted a fire red to attract attention to the ground handlers...They don't seem to use this color coded practice much in the states. Some airlines do but think it is just a corporate move.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 19980 times:



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 12):
Ramp rash as it is called are ground vehicles hitting the aircraft.

This happens the MOST on lower geared airplanes like M80's and 737's. But not as much on the A320 series aircraft... BUT........

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 12):
...ome of the box type catering trucks are the biggest violators.

This type of damage happens the most on the A320 aircraft than anything else.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 19878 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
I assume it´s not "normal" for bits to drop off.
Imagine the damage / harm it can cause on the ground!

No, it's not normal, but it does happen. If you actually got hit by a falling bit it could certainly be fatal. Fortunately, the size of the parts relative to the size of the ground makes an actual impact on someone fairly unlikely.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
If this were to happen is the plane taken out of service after arrival at its "home base / maintenance base" to have this fixed? Or don´t airlines have these canoes in stock and do planes continue flying until the time is convenient to do something about it?

It depends on what's wrong. Airliners have a document called the CDL (Configuration Deviation List), which lists all the parts you can legally operate the aircraft without. Usually, there's some drag or fuel correction to apply as long as you've got the missing part. So you can continue operation, with the restrictions, until you can get the aircraft to a base with a replacement part.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
Does this happen often?
Isn´t "not hitting multi million dollar planes" absolute priority on any apron / airport platform?

A lot more often than you'd expect.

Tom.


User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 19876 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 14):

Some ramp operators that drive vehicles at our local airports don't even own cars...

Years ago some guy walking down Jones beach on Long Island found and engine cowl (composite) form a Delta L1011. Was a fairly large piece...and while I was surfing out in the Hamptons I found a light gray composite access door floating in the water. It must have been left open as it was torn at the hinge point. It was clearly from a heavy transport.
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note orange open access door left of landing lights


User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19687 times:



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 15):
Some ramp operators that drive vehicles at our local airports don't even own cars...

Nice one!
I imagine there´s some interesting lawsuits going on between aircraft owners and careless ramp operators worldwide! It´s not just the physical damage, it´s also the delay when an aircraft is not able to take off anymore due to ill apron-driving!!



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
This type of damage happens the most on the A320 aircraft than anything else.

Why mainly on A320´s?
Are they so low? Aren´t planes like the 737 extremely similar?

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 15):
and while I was surfing out in the Hamptons I found a light gray composite access door floating in the water.

Is it illegal to keep parts of aircrafts?
Where do you hand ´m in though? Your local airport?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
But I will still take more pictures for you and post them here next week.

Please do!

Ecuadorian MD11


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 19676 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):
Why mainly on A320´s?
Are they so low? Aren´t planes like the 737 extremely similar?

The A320's are taller and the 737's are closer to the ground.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):
Please do!

Not a problem!  Smile



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 19687 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):

I'll post a shot of the USAirways canoes that survived the Hudson River landing..(ditching)...I was amaxed they even stayed attached.
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N106US,Huson River A320


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 19596 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):
Why mainly on A320´s?
Are they so low? Aren´t planes like the 737 extremely similar?

A320's are considerably higher. I think that makes people think they might be able to get under one. Nobody's going to think for a second they can get under a 737.

Tom.


User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 19557 times:



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 18):
I'll post a shot of the USAirways canoes that survived the Hudson River landing..(ditching)...I was amaxed they even stayed attached.

Amazing indeed!
That must have been a favorable angle of impact for those canoes!

Soon 7x7, did you keep that access door part your found, or was your "board" still priority to be taken home?
I really wonder if you´re actually allowed to keep things like that!
It beats the old sailing ship in a bottle on top of the fire place in my opinion.........

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 19):
A320's are considerably higher. I think that makes people think they might be able to get under one. Nobody's going to think for a second they can get under a 737

Fair enough!
But then I imagine that bigger planes suffer from this false sense of security as well at times.

Then 1 more additional question since we´re on the topic of wing impact / damage etc:
Is it true that high constructions like radar masts or elevated runway lights etc close to major airports are made of a lighter material in order to sheer off at impact instead of the aircraft´s wing sheering off?
I read it somewhere once, can´t remember where!

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 19531 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 20):
Fair enough!
But then I imagine that bigger planes suffer from this false sense of security as well at times.

I think they do, but you've actually got a chance to get under there with the really big planes. Many airport vehicles, like baggage trains, can get under a 747 without smacking the fuselage. It's still a very bad idea, but it's possible.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 20):
Is it true that high constructions like radar masts or elevated runway lights etc close to major airports are made of a lighter material in order to sheer off at impact instead of the aircraft´s wing sheering off?

I'm not sure about radar masts, but runway lights definitely have a breakaway point, although I think it's more for snowplows than airplanes.

Tom.


User currently offlineSoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 19477 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 20):

I did hold onto it as it was composite and no longer useful...literally hungdreds of planes fly over long island daily wasn't that big...14"x9"...found it ten years ago...I call it space junk...at the high tide line on long island beaches...if you know what to look for, you will always find an aircraft piece of material...I've found parts from other type planes that were fairly old. During wwll...many warbirds were built and tested on Lon Island. Pieces from air disaster can literally float thousands of miles in ocean currents and take months...j


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19455 times:



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
I assume it´s not "normal" for bits to drop off.

While it is not normal for "bits" to drop off, it does happen. Back when there were lots of L-1011's flying, every once in awhile one would lose a MLG fix strut door. At first we called these "isolated incidents" but after the 14th "isolated incident" the FAA made (by an AD) Lockheed re-design an the door attachment.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19442 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 21):

I think they do, but you've actually got a chance to get under there with the really big planes. Many airport vehicles, like baggage trains, can get under a 747 without smacking the fuselage. It's still a very bad idea, but it's possible.

At my airline, if one is caught driving under any of the Airbuses, it is an automatic termination.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
25 EcuadorianMD11 : Hmmmm, that´s harsh......... I take it when you say "any of the Airbuses" it means your company only flies Airbuses........or are there different wo
26 Post contains links Vikkyvik : Runway approach lights, at least, are frangible. Of course, when they're mounted on a wooden or metal pier (due to water or slopes or something), tha
27 Soon7x7 : If the parts that were found immedietely followed a major transport aircraft that was supected of fowl play (terrorism), then yes, it would be illega
28 AirframeAS : Not really, I would like to say that is industry standard.... because each airline operates differently, I can't say that. But my airline has that st
29 EcuadorianMD11 : R.I.P. Uh oh, that may become a popular spot for scuba divers (read "looters"). Well, here in Latin America they tend to keep the planes on the airpo
30 Soon7x7 : I don't , I live on the east coast and have to shipp everything back...that a346 that was damaged, if it is a write off they will cannabolize it for
31 ChrisMUC : AirframeAS is correct that it's there to attach a cord, the other end will be attached to a hook inside the frame of the emergency exits. The cord is
32 EcuadorianMD11 : You reckon? Well, I´ll ask around, definitely. A cockpit window would be cool........... What are your favorite bits you have lying around the house
33 AirframeAS : Yes, but the logic is the same throughout regardless of airline. At my company, all of the Airbuses have them. I think with the other airlines, the 7
34 Soon7x7 : Aer Lingus upper crew escape door (5') tall, not the small hatch, from EI-BED. Vertical fin panels from EI-BED with parts of the large white clover o
35 EcuadorianMD11 : Good stuff, if you have the space to store it all neatly! I wonder where the 737-700 wingtips comes from as this is a relatively new plane..........
36 Post contains links and images AirframeAS : Ok, I got pics for you, Ecuadorian MD11! Taken last night.... You mentioned the bracket on the wing with the rope...here is the placard on our Airbus
37 Soon7x7 : I love tek shots like that ...those are in somewhat better condition than the photo I post. (reply 18)...When you consider what canoes are made of, th
38 AirframeAS : Aw, shucks! Thanks!
39 Post contains links and images BuyantUkhaa : Of course not, but big bits fall off once in a while - engines for example (seem to recall a 747 dropping one over Lake Michigan, but there are more
40 EcuadorianMD11 : Airframe A.S, Your job looks like a hobby to me! Many of the punters here on Airliners.net would offer a free weekend and pay a decent amount of money
41 Soon7x7 : That 747 engine drop was Kalittas way of controlling efficient fuel burn...
42 474218 : Because the flap actuation components are inside the canoes.
43 Tdscanuck : The major function, as 474218 noted, it to protect the flap actuation mechanisms from the outside world. A secondary function is to improve the overa
44 AirframeAS : Every check we do requires us to open up the flap canoe fairings, always. Always routine mx done in these canoes. On this check we did, we replaced a
45 Soon7x7 : On the A320. what is the composition of the canoes, fibreglass, kevlar or carbon fibre?
46 AirframeAS : The pics I took are on A319's. I have not fully worked on an A320 yet.... Im told is is plastic, mostly. But it feels like fiberglass.
47 EcuadorianMD11 : Yep, I´ve got that! Never knew they had that control mechanism inside them. I´ll be an expert at this soon!! Thanks, gents!!! I think it´s a great
48 Tdscanuck : I would looooooove to post pictures from work. Unfortunately, my employer doesn't allow cameras on site without a special permit. Tom.
49 AirframeAS : That really sucks! Sorry to hear bro, I've always wanted to see your work.
50 Caryjack : It looks like aerodynamics and mechanism protection considerations came up early but what is the "area rule" that DocLightning referred to in his rep
51 Post contains links and images Starlionblue : In simple terms, the Whitcomb area rule is based on a "perfect" aerodynamic shape, somewhat like a cigar with points at both ends. The area rule says
52 EcuadorianMD11 : Now it´s time to use that camera on your cell phone and pretend to be SMS-ing all day. Or if they even ban cell phones............go for that specia
53 Tdscanuck : Believe it or not, they thought of that already. My company-cell phone does not have a camera. Which, in today's cell phone market, means it's basica
54 Starlionblue : It's big and red so it won't be missed when it's time to take it out again. It also provides a clear indication that the component is locked out. Min
55 AirframeAS : Spoiler lock out clamps to keep the spoilers from moving while the hydraulics are on. And it has the REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT streamers on it to show tha
56 SNAFlyboy : How I miss working with those A319s...good planes, those were. Wonderful pictures! Thanks for sharing, AirframeAS. ~SNAFlyboy
57 EcuadorianMD11 : Okay people...........I figured something like that! Thanks! Yep, devotion to this site has its limits! Losing your job may be taking things a bit to
58 AirframeAS : That is the only reason why I posted the pics so that you can get a better idea what is under the wing and what the purpose of the canoe fairings are
59 EcuadorianMD11 : You did it mate......."you have educated". Next flight I´ll have a good look at ´m! A pre-flight inspection if you like.......... The exception has
60 AirframeAS : The wing/airfoil design is all the same on all of the A320 series airplanes. Same wing, different fuselage lengths. No, not really since a lot of par
61 Starlionblue : Identical wing with one important exception. The 321 has double-slotted flaps instead of single-slotted.
62 AirframeAS : Is there a reason for that?
63 Phollingsworth : I believe it also has a slight chord extension, which would change the effective shape of the airfoil. Take-off and Landing performance would have be
64 Tdscanuck : It sort of depends what you mean by "extremely similar." Almost all current commercial airliner wings use the same basic construction. The A32x and A
65 AirframeAS : Oh! I didn't know that. We don't have A321's. I learned something new!
66 Starlionblue : As Phollingsworth notes, due to higher weights. The aircraft needs better low speed performance. The double-slotted flaps give it more lift at low sp
67 Phollingsworth : There is a NASA CR that reviews the design of high-lift devices across a range of aircraft, basically everything before the 737NGs. It explains the h
68 EcuadorianMD11 : Okay, so I gather from your words the A330/340 are identical amongst themselves, then? Obviously bigger than the A32X, but again the A320X´s all sha
69 Post contains links AirframeAS : Design? That, I do not know. But the 18's have a lower range than the 19's and 20's. You can compare at Airbus' website: http://www.airbus.com/en/air
70 Tdscanuck : Other than the extra bits to support the 2nd pair of engines, that's correct. I believe the A340-500/600 have what is effectively a "wedge" shoved in
71 Starlionblue : IIRC the term is "wing root insert". As you say a very pointy triangle with the base towards the fuselage that inserts in the wing.
72 EcuadorianMD11 : On the other hand, saying "Tom" only took me a few hours practice! Is this to make the wing wider? Ecuadorian MD11
73 Tdscanuck : It increases wing area by increasing the chord from the root (at the wing-body join) out to something like 1/3 to 1/2 the wingspan. It's a way to inc
74 EcuadorianMD11 : Can I be a pain and ask you for some kind of picture / sketch? Can´t really find it on Google. Well, I found some, but not sure if it´s the same an
75 Post contains links Starlionblue : My sketch is ugly as hell but here you go. I would link the pic directly but the a.nut engine isn't letting me for some reason. http://www.rosboch.ne
76 Post contains links Tdscanuck : Check out the illustration on this PDF: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1996/1996%20-%202680.html Basically, yes. Ground clearance, and t
77 EcuadorianMD11 : Okay, that´s why F16´s get away with so much gear under its wings..........sometimes enough to "solve" the problems in the Middle East all by itsel
78 Tdscanuck : I suspect that, since very small planes are almost never span restricted, it's more efficient to just give them a little more wingspan. Easier to bui
79 EcuadorianMD11 : Oops, and I thought the A340-600 was a bit of a scucces. I mean, I see quite a few here in Latin America.........well, European ones anyway. But you
80 Tdscanuck : I got my data wrong...I was thinking of the A340-500 (only 28 delivered). Total A340 production is currently about 370, which is OK for a plane of th
81 Starlionblue : More like taller gear, which is not a trivial undertaking. Quite. And it's much simpler. I'll open the can of worms here and say you can't really "co
82 AirframeAS : Why not?? They do the same thing with the 737's.
83 Starlionblue : Does Boeing do that? I'm sure they count at least the generations as a whole against the corresponding development investment. Original (100-200), Cl
84 AirframeAS : Yeah, they do. They had a decal on one of WN's(?) 737 that was the 5,000th 737 built or delivered regardless of series or airline.... or something li
85 Starlionblue : Well, that's marketing. What the beancounters say is different. But what you are saying is that Boeing counts all series of 737 together. So you are i
86 AirframeAS : Yep. I agree with what Boeing does.
87 EcuadorianMD11 : People, just came from a flight in an Embraer (the safety card didn´t mention the exact type, but row 9 was the emergency exit row and it was on Amer
88 AirframeAS : They are really moving, but not as much. Think about how much air is hitting the wings, that is what causes you not to see the ailerons move very muc
89 EcuadorianMD11 : If you say so......... Maybe it was the angle.........I was sitting emeregncy exit, perhaps the people in the back would have had a better view! Than
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