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Displaced Thresholds With An Approach Over Water?  
User currently offlineFaro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1571 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

In the following pic off the database, why the displaced threshold if your approach is over a water surface? Where is your obstacle; don't understand...


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Faro


The chalice not my son
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

Maybe on the other end of the lake  Wink (after all, this is in Dallas, Texas, a very land-locked city!)


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineFaro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4789 times:



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
Maybe on the other end of the lake   (after all, this is in Dallas, Texas, a very land-locked city!

My bad...when I saw NAS I automatically assumed it were out on the Gulf coast. Dallas-on-Lake, how exotic...

Faro



The chalice not my son
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4766 times:
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Quoting Faro (Thread starter):
why the displaced threshold if your approach is over a water surface? Where is your obstacle; don't understand...

I wonder if shipping lanes (at other airports) might justify displaced thresholds for clearance above passing ships.

2H4



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineVikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10233 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4755 times:
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Quoting 2H4 (Reply 3):
I wonder if shipping lanes (at other airports) might justify displaced thresholds for clearance above passing ships.

 checkmark 

Look at the info for runway 4R-22L and 22R at BOS:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBOS

For 4R:

Obstructions: 157 ft. boat, lighted, 1550 ft. from runway, 8:1 slope to clear
APCH RATIO 17:1 FROM DSPLCD THR; 43:1 WHEN CHANNEL IS CLEAR.


for 22L:

Obstructions: 45 ft. boat, 525 ft. from runway, 7:1 slope to clear
APCH RATIO 38:1 FROM DSPLCD THR.


for 22R:

Obstructions: 44 ft. boat, 670 ft. from runway, 10:1 slope to clear
APCH RATIO 33:1 FROM DSPLCD THR; 50:1 TO THR WHEN CHANNEL IS CLEAR.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineMSNDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

Quoting Faro (Thread starter):
In the following pic off the database, why the displaced threshold if your approach is over a water surface? Where is your obstacle; don't understand...

You still have a runway safety area requirement "before" the threshold which is 600-feet. Water cannot serve as an RSA beyond the runway, so in terms of lighting layouts, distance remaining markings and needs of an RSA of 1,000-feet in that area (going the other direction), they probably made it 1,000-feet to make it even then applied declared distances. It also has the unusual 3,000-foot ALS vs the standard 2,400-foot.

They did a similar thing at the other end. The threshold is even with a 1,000-foot RSA to the property line.

[Edited 2009-07-29 10:48:08]

User currently offlineBoeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1030 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

[quote=Vikkyvik,reply=4]

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 3):
I wonder if shipping lanes (at other airports) might justify displaced thresholds for clearance above passing ships.



Look at the info for runway 4R-22L and 22R at BOS:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KBOS


I have been out doing engine runs at the end of a closed runway here in BOS and heard the controllers tell the inbound airplanes to go around due to a Oil Tanker in the channel on the approach end of 22L and 22R.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4477 times:

I remember towing an oil rig (jack up) through Singapore Straits and the vessel traffic controller was pretty anxious for us to report our position at a particular point to tell Changi Airport in time.

If you catch a jetliner with the legs of an oilrig..........I guess you´d make the headlines!
Eternal fame.........

Ecuadorian MD11.


User currently offlineWoodreau From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1050 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting MSNDC9 (Reply 5):
You still have a runway safety area requirement "before" the threshold which is 600-feet. Water cannot serve as an RSA beyond the runway, so in terms of lighting layouts, distance remaining markings and needs of an RSA of 1,000-feet in that area (going the other direction), they probably made it 1,000-feet to make it even then applied declared distances. It also has the unusual 3,000-foot ALS vs the standard 2,400-foot.

They did a similar thing at the other end. The threshold is even with a 1,000-foot RSA to the property line.

I was thinking along the same lines as you were with respect to the runways safety area and approach lighting.

At first I thought there might be high voltage transmission lines just south of the runway - there aren't any. However, what the photo doesn't show is that there is a radio/television tower antenna farm perched on a hill about 6-7 miles south along the extended centerline with several antennae - I think around 4 or 5 - that go up to 2500ft above the touchdown zone elevation. Given that a 3 degree ILS glideslope is 300ft / nm - it might affect the threshold, but I don't think that in itself determines the displaced threshold - the antennae would just interfere with any instrument approaches from the south.

This particular runway is closed but the city has elected to continue maintaining the runway in the event it is needed again. I believe Vought Aircraft still does use it to fly parts in and out of the production facility.

[Edited 2009-07-31 10:29:51]


Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4280 times:



Quoting Woodreau (Reply 8):

At first I thought there might be high voltage transmission lines just south of the runway - there aren't any. However, what the photo doesn't show is that there is a radio/television tower antenna farm perched on a hill about 6-7 miles south along the extended centerline with several antennae - I think around 4 or 5 - that go up to 2500ft above the touchdown zone elevation. Given that a 3 degree ILS glideslope is 300ft / nm - it might affect the threshold, but I don't think that in itself determines the displaced threshold - the antennae would just interfere with any instrument approaches from the south.

IIRC, in the 1980's, an F-14 had an unfortunate encounter with one of the towers (a TV station maintained by late former boss and flight instructor)...maybe this is what lead to the displaced threshhold. I don't remember the details, but I think the flight crew was killed, and a TV station had to operate with an emergency authorization from the FCC (which allowed them to temporarily relocate their transmitter to an adjacent tower at a lower height) until their tower could be reconstructed...



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
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