an IL-76 is on final approach with a nose-down attitude of perhaps 10-15 degrees, aiming for the threshold. It also seems to be flying very, very slowly, like the propliners did on approach back before the jet age.
What is it with the IL-76 that makes it do this? All other jet planes typically have to maintain a nose-up attitude on approach. Or maybe this is an empty plane with almost nil fuel left. At any rate, the IL-76 seems to be quite over-winged to be able to approach like that. Can any other comparable jet aircraft do this?
GST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 927 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5431 times:
Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 1): I'm more curious... do they know when the nose gear will make the first contact or the mains? Smile
Presumably they will know by looking at the pitch angle on the artificial horizon. Even so, it is strange to me that the gear would be made to land nose wheel first or main wheels first, seems unreasonably heavy as far as I can figure.
Lowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5325 times:
Quoting GST (Reply 2): Even so, it is strange to me that the gear would be made to land nose wheel first or main wheels first,
I don't think that was intentional. The other ones I have seen have either 3 pointed or landed mains first.
Quoting Faro (Thread starter): What is it with the IL-76 that makes it do this?
You'll find that high wing STOL capable cargo aircraft (like the C-17, C5, etc) land much flatter, and sometimes as in the video with a steeper nose down attitude, than normal planes. This is mainly due to the large flap deflections used, which create enormous amounts of drag and increase the effective angle of attack, in order to compensate the airplane must be flow at a much lower pitch angle, among other factors.
Quoting GST (Reply 2): Presumably they will know by looking at the pitch angle on the artificial horizon
The pilots have absolutely no reason to look at the attitude indicator if its VFR conditions, or even during IFR once they break out into. The only time they would be looking inside in a visual approach would be to check airspeed.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5131 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 4): You'll find that high wing STOL capable cargo aircraft (like the C-17, C5, etc) land much flatter, and sometimes as in the video with a steeper nose down attitude, than normal planes.
Most high wing aircraft land with a nose down attitude and some actually climb out nose down. Also: Interesting choice of words "normal planes"?
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3250 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5037 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 5): Most high wing aircraft land with a nose down attitude and some actually climb out nose down.
The B-52 famously flies nose down and taxies sidewise......
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Lemmy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 256 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5027 times:
Interesting. Is he holding the nose down right after liftoff just to keep it in ground effect? Looks to me like, once he gets enough speed, the nose comes up for the climb.
FLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4958 times:
Quoting Lemmy (Reply 8): Looks to me like, once he gets enough speed, the nose comes up for the climb.
If you see other videos of the caribou it does have a slight nose down attitude when level and with the flaps out. It's pretty noticeable in the B-52 as well.
Lowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4956 times:
Quoting Lemmy (Reply 8): Looks to me like, once he gets enough speed, the nose comes up for the climb.
Hard to say for certain, but I think the nose comes up as the flaps retract. Bear in mind, pitch angle need not correspond to angle of attack. The wing could care less what the pitch attitude is, so long as the AOA requirements are satisfied.
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4950 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 6): Here's a good video on the Caribou.
I'm sure you know, but the DHC-4 Caribou is a different (albeit similar) aircraft than the Buffalo. DHC-5 (or CC-115 in this case) as ahown in the video.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
FLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4856 times:
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 11):
I'm sure you know, but the DHC-4 Caribou is a different (albeit similar) aircraft than the Buffalo.
Alas you're right! I didn't even catch that. It even said so in the video title. I initially searched for DH4s but then I clicked on that video without thinking much about it as it was showing in the "related" videos pane. Silly me.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4850 times:
Faro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1445 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4678 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 4): You'll find that high wing STOL capable cargo aircraft (like the C-17, C5, etc) land much flatter, and sometimes as in the video with a steeper nose down attitude, than normal planes.
Hmm...wonder if there are any C-17/C-5 pics out there with a nose-down final approach, will have a look...
Just had a quick glance at the numbers though and I believe that the IL-76 does have something special. Depending on the model you take as reference, it has up to 33% less wing loading at MTOW than the C-17. That is no joke, and may well account for the dramatic nose-down final approach ability.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4620 times:
Quoting Faro (Reply 15): Hmm...wonder if there are any C-17/C-5 pics out there with a nose-down final approach, will have a look...
The C-5 and C-17 have leading edge slats, which allow for a more conventional attitude during landings and takeoffs.
Faro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1445 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4573 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 16): The C-5 and C-17 have leading edge slats, which allow for a more conventional attitude during landings and takeoffs
So does the IL-76, and I imagine that it can also do conventional landing attitudes. However, it can still approach nose-down. So far I have not found any pics of nose-down C-17 or C-5 landings (which doesn't mean they don't exist...).
Essentially, I think the IL-76 just has a huge, outsized wing for its weight category.
Tiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4334 times:
- Check the Saab in the video on Faro's link. It is around the 1:40 mark. I have flown in the 340 several times and a few times jump-seated (which in and of itself a neat trick). This looked like the 2000 though. Now, the times I watched this, when the Saab gets abeam the camera, it looks like the propeller stops on the number two. Roll it back a little bit it looks like when the P/F rotates the number two is still churning. Did Saab come up with a brake for the propeller axis to be used while churning? I know this is not a question about the Il-76 but it is a question that arose from watching the clip provided by Faro (the thread starter). Thanks,
Just Curious,
David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2452 posts, RR: 17 Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4318 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19): Did Saab come up with a brake for the propeller axis to be used while churning? I know this is not a question about the Il-76 but it is a question that arose from watching the clip provided by Faro (the thread starter). Thanks,
Yes, on the RH prop. Not all SF340s have it installed and some have it deactivated.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
NorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2804 posts, RR: 40 Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4229 times:
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There is a video somewhere of a "tactical approach and landing" of a C-17 onto an unprepared strip where the final is about about 20* nose down. I've been trying to find it unsuccessfully online.
And though not a jet... it still about the only steep approach you will ever see for most people:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19): Roll it back a little bit it looks like when the P/F rotates the number two is still churning.
Dunno what you're talking about. Neither prop stops at all at any point in the video. You're just seeing the profile of the blade as the plane's angle changes relative to the camera.
Quoting Jetlagged (Reply 20): Yes, on the RH prop. Not all SF340s have it installed and some have it deactivated.
May want to check the video again. It isn't showing a saab parked in hotel mode...
Jetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2452 posts, RR: 17 Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4018 times:
Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 22): May want to check the video again. It isn't showing a saab parked in hotel mode...
I wasn't looking at the video, just confirming that a prop brake was available on the SF340.
The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
Tiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3821 times:
Quoting Tiger119 (Reply 19): looks like when the P/F rotates the number two is still churning
- I think I should have said "flared the number........."
David
Flying is the second greatest thrill known to mankind, landing is the first!
Sovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2339 posts, RR: 14 Reply 25, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3812 times:
This particular Il-76 in this video is the Il-76MF demonstrator and it is very obvious that it was filmed in Zhukovskiy. Therefore this was 99% taken at the MAKS airshow and the plane would have been very light for the perfomance flying. So a nose down approach based on the reasons given above is perfectly logical.
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 18): Does anyone know what the maximum flap setting is on the IL-76?
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