Sponsor Message:
Aviation Technical / Operations Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Airport And Aircraft Certifications CAT I, II, III  
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3193 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18452 times:

I'm trying to sharpen the saw about airport classifications as it relates to handle CAT I, II, III approaches and how it relates to aircraft, pilot or possibly air traffic controller certifications to land at any given airport.

My understanding of the three categories are equipment based such as NAVAIDS aircraft use to land at any given airport and not so much experience or certification required to land the aircraft.

For example if a airport is certified by the FAA as CAT II, does this mean the airport cannot land CAT III equipped aircraft?

Thanks In Advance.


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18419 times:

No, Cat III certified aircraft can land at Cat I, II, and III approach (also airports without ILS) provided that the crew are trained for that type of approach and a few other restrictions.

An aircraft that is certified only to Cat I cannot land using a Cat III approach however runways with Cat III are usually backwards compatible ie a Cat III approach is usually also a Cat I and II approach with higher minima's etc.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineMSYPI7185 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 18393 times:

The airport, the aircraft and the pilots must be certified to make the landing.

If an airport R/W is certified for CAT III, Obviously the aircraft must be CAT III Capable, and the pilots must be certified for CAT III ops. I mention the pilots ONLY because in RARE circumstances you can have a new Capt. with less than 100 hrs (IIRC) of CAT III training/experience and the landing cannot be attempted. (That was the policy where I used to work). It is rare in that I had only come across this twice in my 20yrs at the airline.

If an airport is certified for CAT II, and weather is CAT III, the airport is closed, or at least that R/W is closed. Does not matter that the aircraft is CAT III capable.

At least this is how I understand it to be.

MD


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 18272 times:



Quoting GentFromAlaska (Thread starter):
My understanding of the three categories are equipment based such as NAVAIDS aircraft use to land at any given airport and not so much experience or certification required to land the aircraft.

For the runway and aircraft, it's an equipment issue. For the crew, it's a training issue (which will involve some experience in a simulator). For all three, it's a certification issue. The equipment must be certified and the pilots' training must be certified.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Thread starter):
For example if a airport is certified by the FAA as CAT II, does this mean the airport cannot land CAT III equipped aircraft?

No. Just because an aircraft is CatIII equipped does not mean that it is necessarily using that capability. It can still do CatII or CatI approaches just fine.

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 2):
If an airport is certified for CAT II, and weather is CAT III, the airport is closed, or at least that R/W is closed. Does not matter that the aircraft is CAT III capable.

The airport and runway don't have to be closed. They can stay open - it's just that nobody can legally land on them. People could still take off on the runway if they wanted to (and if their weather minimums were met).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 18188 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
The airport and runway don't have to be closed. They can stay open

All true. In fact weather conditions rarely require the airport operator (only folks who close runways/airports) to close a runway other than for snow removal or similar, even having a vehicle doing a runway check for braking action rarely closes the runway.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 18177 times:

Quoting MSYPI7185 (Reply 2):
The airport, the aircraft and the pilots must be certified to make the landing.

.....and the mechanic that last released the aircraft from maintenance...!!! It requires a special training class and certification to return a CAT I /II / III aircraft back to service.

[Edited 2009-12-29 10:53:51]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineDalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2574 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 18159 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 5):
.....and the mechanic that last released the aircraft from maintenance...!!! It requires a special training class and certification to return a CAT I /II / III aircraft back to service.

For DL that isn't quite the case. A mechanic only needs to be Autoland qualed on that aircraft to sign for autoland write ups and test check outs. The actual release from mtc can be signed by any release qualified mechanic. A mechanic without the autoland qual can even work on the system, but only a qualified mechanic can recertify the system for Autoland.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 18123 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
People could still take off on the runway if they wanted to (and if their weather minimums were met).

Meaning that, (in the US at least) if operating under part 91, you can legally take off with zero ceiling and zero visibility. Not that I'd recommend it.  Wink

Common sense would dictate that you wouldn't want to take off in any WX conditions worse than the approach with the highest minima at the airport you're departing from.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 18079 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 7):
Meaning that, (in the US at least) if operating under part 91, you can legally take off with zero ceiling and zero visibility. Not that I'd recommend it.

Nor would I. But it is legal to do, so if someone calls up for takeoff with CatIIIb weather, the tower has no reason to refuse them the clearance (as long as the runway is clear, no other conflicting traffic, etc., of course).

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 7):
Common sense would dictate that you wouldn't want to take off in any WX conditions worse than the approach with the highest minima at the airport you're departing from.

Airlines do this all the time - they just have takeoff alternates.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2820 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (4 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18047 times:



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 1):
An aircraft that is certified only to Cat I cannot land using a Cat III approach however runways with Cat III are usually backwards compatible ie a Cat III approach is usually also a Cat I and II approach with higher minima's etc.

Backwards compatible? You make it sound like cat III equipment is to blu-ray as cat II is to DVD.

Categorisation in this context merely reflects the maximum (or minimum in this case I suppose) capabilities of the equipment and crew. A cat III ILS is capable of meeting the standards for precision and integrity of signal required for cat III operations. Clearly then, it is inherently capable of meeting the standards for cat II and cat I precision as well.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

Reply To This Topic Airport And Aircraft Certifications CAT I, II, III
Username:
No username? Sign up now!
Password: 


Forgot Password? Be reminded.
Remember me on this computer (uses cookies)
  • Tech/Ops related posts only!
  • Not Tech/Ops related? Use the other forums
  • No adverts of any kind. This includes web pages.
  • No hostile language or criticizing of others.
  • Do not post copyright protected material.
  • Use relevant and describing topics.
  • Check if your post already been discussed.
  • Check your spelling!
  • DETAILED RULES
Add Images Add SmiliesPosting Help

Please check your spelling (press "Check Spelling" above)


Similar topics:More similar topics...
CAT II/III Vis - See Threshold/Touchdown Point? posted Sat Feb 7 2009 22:01:05 by Liamksa
CAT I,II,III Approaches! posted Wed Sep 1 2004 21:56:30 by BMI701EGCC
A Newbie In Need: CAT I/II/III... posted Sun Jun 6 2004 01:55:28 by Futterman
Differences Among CAT I/II/III Approaches? posted Thu Apr 3 2003 03:56:23 by FSPilot747
CAT I,II,III posted Thu Mar 29 2001 00:42:38 by H. Simpson
Approach CAT I, II, III posted Fri Dec 22 2000 08:01:12 by Mhsieh
CAT II And CAT III posted Mon Jun 23 2003 22:33:22 by Mb339
CAT II/ CAT III posted Tue Jan 6 2009 12:45:35 by TAN FLYR
Cat II /Cat III Questions posted Fri Feb 9 2007 03:07:34 by Murf
CHQ Operation And CAT II posted Fri Dec 15 2006 13:44:30 by IAHFLYR

Sponsor Message:
Printer friendly format