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733 Vs 734  
User currently offlinekimon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2562 times:

How was the 734 flight instrumentation modified after the Kegworth crash?
Any photos of the upgraded post-Kegworth 734 flighdeck?
The LED instruments on the original 734 were a lot harder to see compared with the 733.
When did the 737 receive CRTs and when where they subsequently replaced by LCDs?
Many thanks!

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting kimon (Thread starter):
How was the 734 flight instrumentation modified after the Kegworth crash?

I'm not positive that it was...this was more of a training issue than a visibility issue. The AAIB recommended that the vibration indicators be modified to highligh when they hit maximum vibration; on EICAS cockpits this is done by changing the indicator colour but I'm not sure if they back-drove that into the 737 indicator.

Quoting kimon (Thread starter):
The LED instruments on the original 734 were a lot harder to see compared with the 733.

The AIBB didn't note this as a finding or cause in the accident report...just that the instruments were different and the flight crew hadn't been trained on the differences.

Quoting kimon (Thread starter):
When did the 737 receive CRTs and when where they subsequently replaced by LCDs?

I think the 737NG went straight to LCD and skipped over CRT...can anyone confirm? I haven't seen a 737 classic (-300/400/500) with any kind of CRT/LCD for flight instrumentation.

Tom.


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 1):
I think the 737NG went straight to LCD and skipped over CRT...can anyone confirm? I haven't seen a 737 classic (-300/400/500) with any kind of CRT/LCD for flight instrumentation.

There are some classics with EFIS. The only engine instruments I ever saw were the steam gauge with the rolling number digital on them.


User currently offlinekimon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

On which series did the LCD appear on the 737?
Many thanks!


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

Quoting kimon (Reply 3):
On which series did the LCD appear on the 737?

I believe it started with the 737-700 (which is the first of the NG's, the -600 came later)

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 2):
There are some classics with EFIS

Is that an STC or a late Boeing option? I'd love to see one of those.

Tom.


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6919 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Kimon, I think U need to see more 737 Classic cockpits...

When the -300 came out, the early ones came with steamgauge engine instruments...
The later ones, mainly came with the LED engine instruments... just like the -400 and -500... going steamgauge or LED engine instruments remain a customer option (since the -400 came out, the default is the LED).

The 737 Classics until they stopped production, only had the LED or steamgauge engine instruments as an option... Any CRT or LCD engine instruments are retrofits (I know some are being offered out there but I dunno if anyone's taken them up).

Some steamgauge engine instrument cockpits were later changed to LEDs. Haven't heard of a move from LED to steamgauge though.

As for ADI and HSI, you have the 737CL EFIS and non-EFIS... the EFIS ones have the CRTs, and non-EFIS look like the 737-200 cockpit (but with the Classic Mode Control Panel like the EFIS... not the jurassic gas cooker dials from the 50s). Most of the non-EFIS Classics are the -300s... there are very few -400s that are non-EFIS (I've only been told of one over here... dunno about other countries).

As far as I know, the EFIS on the Classics are still CRT... no LCDs yet I've seen on a.net photos  biggrin 

Quoting kimon (Thread starter):
How was the 734 flight instrumentation modified after the Kegworth crash?

I have to go with Tom on this one. I was in the UK during that time and there was a big fuss over the layout of the instruments, not just the LED vs steamgauge. But it was a training issue... the 737-200 and classics engine instrumentation are laid out from left to right as:
Left Engine Primary Instruments, Right Engine Primary Instruments, Left Engine Secondary Instruments, Right Engine Secondary Instruments.

There were suggestions to change it to:
Left Engine Secondary Instruments, Left Engine Primary Instruments, Right Engine Primary Instruments, Right Engine Secondary Instruments.

The latter came from the Fokker 28 (and am sure there are others with such layouts too)... the 737s and DC9s have the former. The argument was that under the 737/DC9 standard engine instrument layout, on the LEDs, you're open for misidentification of which engine... one argument was that for the steamgauge ones, the primary is laid out over a different panel background colour...

See the difference below
<1645605>&

[Edited 2010-02-06 16:21:42]


When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6919 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Kimon, I think U need to see more 737 Classic cockpits...

When the -300 came out, the early ones came with steamgauge engine instruments...
The later ones, mainly came with the LED engine instruments... just like the -400 and -500... going steamgauge or LED engine instruments remain a customer option (since the -400 came out, the default is the LED).

The 737 Classics until they stopped production, only had the LED or steamgauge engine instruments as an option... Any CRT or LCD engine instruments are retrofits (I know some are being offered out there but I dunno if anyone's taken them up).

Some steamgauge engine instrument cockpits were later changed to LEDs. Haven't heard of a move from LED to steamgauge though.

As for ADI and HSI, you have the 737CL EFIS and non-EFIS... the EFIS ones have the CRTs, and non-EFIS look like the 737-200 cockpit (but with the Classic Mode Control Panel like the EFIS... not the jurassic gas cooker dials from the 50s). Most of the non-EFIS Classics are the -300s... there are very few -400s that are non-EFIS (I've only been told of one over here... dunno about other countries).

As far as I know, the EFIS on the Classics are still CRT... no LCDs yet I've seen on a.net photos   

Quoting kimon (Thread starter):
How was the 734 flight instrumentation modified after the Kegworth crash?

I have to go with Tom on this one. I was in the UK during that time and there was a big fuss over the layout of the instruments, not just the LED vs steamgauge. But it was a training issue... the 737-200 and classics engine instrumentation are laid out from left to right as:
Left Engine Primary Instruments, Right Engine Primary Instruments, Left Engine Secondary Instruments, Right Engine Secondary Instruments.

There were suggestions to change it to:
Left Engine Secondary Instruments, Left Engine Primary Instruments, Right Engine Primary Instruments, Right Engine Secondary Instruments.

The latter came from the Fokker 28 (and am sure there are others with such layouts too)... the 737s and DC9s have the former. The argument was that under the 737/DC9 standard engine instrument layout, on the LEDs, you're open for misidentification of which engine... one argument was that for the steamgauge ones, the primary is laid out over a different panel background colour...

See the difference below
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Blue-Air/Boeing-737-4Y0/1645605/M/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/1250623/M/

Mind you, the recommended changes during the course of the investigation (not the investigation itself), were not made mandatory...

The LED instrumentation even made it to the BAe-146 !   

Everyone got used to the LED instrumentation on the LP/RP/LS/RS layout in the end... I have yet to see a 737 with LED instruments with the LS/LP/RP/RS layout.

So, yes, it was a training & familiarity issue.

---

Quoting kimon (Reply 3):
On which series did the LCD appear on the 737?

737-200: Steamgauge
737-300/400/500: Steamgauge, CRT EFIS with Steamgauge EIS, CRT EFIS with LED EIS.
737-600/700/800/900: LCD EFIS with LCD EIS.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 4):
Is that an STC or a late Boeing option? I'd love to see one of those.

Well, the last 737 Classics built had CRTs (even with the GPS like the NGs, but CRT Classic all the way!) If someone can show a photo of a 737 Classic with LCD EFIS... I agree with Tom again... EYE CANDY !!!   

- Edited the post after unable to get the "twoid:xxxx,yyyy" code to display the photos, replaced with links...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
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