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UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder  
User currently offlinen49wa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2654 times:

I've been watching some old airline/airport films on youtube and looking at photos here. I noticed that United's 727 Friendship paint scheme did not include a painted rudder. All other airlines look like they did paint the entire vertical stab and rudder (except bare metal schemes, as AA). Any particular reason?
Did a search, no joy.

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting n49wa (Thread starter):
Any particular reason?

Yeah, on the Boeings, all rudders have to be balanced when painting them. They have a ballast in them. So the weight of the paint has to be distributed across the entire rudder. The Boeing rudders, when painting them, require a RII.

The Airbuses, on the other hand, do not need to be balanced when paint is applied.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinen49wa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2571 times:

I think I get what you describe, but what would allow for example National or Delta to paint their 727 rudders but not United? Thanks.

User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1907 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
Yeah, on the Boeings, all rudders have to be balanced when painting them.

I don't think the 727 has a balanced rudder. In 1991, I recall there were no restrictions in using a roller to paint out the Blue Ball on the PA 727's. I don't think this is possible with 737's, 757's and 767's unless you remove the rudder.


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Photo © Bill Hough
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Photo © George W. Hamlin



Here is a pic of the 727 production line:

http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices...lery/images/commercial/727-11.html

Note that none of the rudders are painted.

[Edited 2010-02-21 16:00:11]


It's not going to the Moon.....It's just going to California
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Quoting n49wa (Thread starter):
Any particular reason?

I think it was just the livery style back then. I've seen a few airlines back in the early 1960's that did that.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):

Yeah, on the Boeings, all rudders have to be balanced when painting them

I've been on site to see a: 767, 747-400, 747SP, 757, 737 and 727... at no time were the rudders balanced.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
The Boeing rudders, when painting them, require a RII.

Making it RII is the airlines choice.. it's not a requirement...



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

Well, my understanding during my time at AS, when we remove the rudder for re-paint, I was told that the rudder had to be balanced while it was being painted (the rudder was always sitting on scales) and that it was a RII.

I am not saying anyone here is incorrect. I am saying that is what I learned when I was working on the 737's at AS. Keep in mind the rudders were composites.

[Edited 2010-02-22 22:07:27]


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2157 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
I've been on site to see a: 767, 747-400, 747SP, 757, 737 and 727... at no time were the rudders balanced.

Rudders are balanced. Balancing is required to prevent flutter if hydraulic power or cable tension to the rudder is lost. The SRM provides details on how to ballance and re-balance the rudder.

There are provisions in the SRM for calculating the amount of added weight required after a repaint. Only when the maximum amount of allowable weight would be exceeded must the rudder be removed, striped, repainted and re-balanced.


User currently offlineboeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

If I remember right, the 727's have a weight you can add to the forward part of the spar for a repaint. The SRM gave you the weight part number for different amounts of paint applied up to a certain amount, then you have to balance the flight control. But this is all going from memory 15 years ago working in a aviation sweat shop.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 7):
If I remember right, the 727's have a weight you can add to the forward part of the spar for a repaint. The SRM gave you the weight part number for different amounts of paint applied up to a certain amount, then you have to balance the flight control.

That is exactly what I meant. Thank you.

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 7):
But this is all going from memory 15 years ago working in a aviation sweat shop.

I have not touched a 737 in nearly 8-10 years now. Yes, I know...that's sad...really. 



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
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