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How Can A DC-8 60/70 Series Out Lift An A300?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3649 posts, RR: 2
Posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

I was looking at DHL (ASTAR) web site not to long ago, and when I looked up the drifferent a/c payload, it showed that their DC-8 71 or 73 carry around 105000 lb and their A300 carried around 96000 lb. Seeing that an A300 is a widebody, and that WB can carry pallets on the on the main deck and in the baggage area, I would think an A300 should be able to carry more payload. Yes, I know a DC-8 71 or 73 is a longer a/c, but it just by around 10 ft longer, and it narrow.

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4377 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I was looking at DHL (ASTAR) web site not to long ago, and when I looked up the drifferent a/c payload, it showed that their DC-8 71 or 73 carry around 105000 lb and their A300 carried around 96000 lb. Seeing that an A300 is a widebody, and that WB can carry pallets on the on the main deck and in the baggage area, I would think an A300 should be able to carry more payload. Yes, I know a DC-8 71 or 73 is a longer a/c, but it just by around 10 ft longer, and it narrow.

The amount of payload they can carry isn't usually a function of space, it's a function of weight. The bigger DC-8's and the A300 have almost the same OEW and MTOW. Unless you're carrying low density cargo, you'll typically max out the weight long before you max out the volume.

Tom.


User currently offlineprebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6461 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4349 times:

Please have a look at how much more powerful the DC-8-7x is when one engine fails at V1 speed. Then you will see that the A300 actually compares extremely favorably.

The A300 fuselage volume was made for efficient transport of large pax numbers over pretty short sectors. While the DC-8 was made as a long haul plane.

Also have a look at the DC-8-7x range capability with max cargo load. It isn't impressive since with that load there is no way it can also fill its fuel tanks. If you want to utilize a fair part of its splended range capability (which some operators do), then you will have to reduce the payload to a much smaller weight than max cargo weight.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently onlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1367 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

Basically, the Diesel Eight is a stronger aeroplane. Douglas build their aeroplanes to last, and by todays measures would be considered severely over-engineered.

Sure, the 'Bus got more volume, but the -Eight can carry more weight, not only total payload but also on an individual ULD basis.

To give you an example, maximum ULD weight on the A300B4 is 6804 kg. Max on the 8-73 is 7874 kg.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 3):
Basically, the Diesel Eight is a stronger aeroplane. Douglas build their aeroplanes to last, and by todays measures would be considered severely over-engineered.

This has nothing to do with it (Even thought Douglas aircraft are built like a tank).

To try and put this simply,
The DC8 is a long range aircraft, therefore it has to be able to lift a lot of weight to carry a load Long Range.
The A300 is a medium range aircraft, so it's take off weight is based on the weight of it's typical payload + fuel to travel medium ranges.


User currently onlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1367 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 4):
This has nothing to do with it (Even thought Douglas aircraft are built like a tank).

It has everything to do with it, and nothing to do with the MTOW you're referring to. What allows the DC-8 to carry so much weight is the strenght of its construction, particularly the floor. Thought I illustrated that perfectly by showing the difference in maximum ULD weight.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 4):
This has nothing to do with it (Even thought Douglas aircraft are built like a tank).

To try and put this simply,
The DC8 is a long range aircraft, therefore it has to be able to lift a lot of weight to carry a load Long Range.
The A300 is a medium range aircraft, so it's take off weight is based on the weight of it's typical payload + fuel to travel medium ranges.

You're talking about the same thing...in order to be able to lift a lot of weight (in order to support the long range, and because Douglas designed to a higher requirement), the airplane is built stronger.

Tom.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3659 times:
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The DC-8-63 / DC-8-73 are within general spitting distance on volume of the A300-600F: 363 m3 compared to 374m3.

User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

Doesn't the DC-8 have more wing area?...that is the lifting source here...DC-8 wing area = 2927 sq/ft....A300 wing area = 2798 sq/ft...j

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 8):
Doesn't the DC-8 have more wing area?...that is the lifting source here...DC-8 wing area = 2927 sq/ft....A300 wing area = 2798 sq/ft...j

Wing area, by itself, doesn't tell you anything about payload capacity. If the A300 ran the same wing loading as a 777-300, the wing would lift a lot more, but the structure wouldn't take it.

Tom.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8565 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Long story short, the DC8 with new engines is an absolute narrowbody-on-steroids. It's more like an A340 than like a 737.

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