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Canada’s Multi-crew Pilot Licence (MPL)  
User currently offlineSampson777 From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5206 times:

Hello fellow Air Netters,

Recently, I have heard about the Multi-crew Pilot License coming to Canada. This would enable new Canadian pilots to fly as a first officer with an airline with around 240 hours of flying and sim time.

Here is the link on the Transport Canada website:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/general/mpl/menu.htm

So:

1. How would the Canadian pilot industry react to this?
2. What airline would initiate such a program?
3. Would such a program "fly" in Canada? (pun intended)
4. How would veteran pilots feel about this? (Guys/gals that have paid their dues instructing/bush flying/ working the ramp, etc, etc)
5. Has anyone gone through such a program outside Canada? Any feedback?
6. Should I commence flight traning in September, or wait till such a program is introduced?

Any feedback is appreciated.

Cheers,

Sampson777


Making Mom proud since 1989
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21626 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

I'm not a fan of the MPL. It has nothing do with the concept of "paying dues", but rather the simple fact that if you're going to sit in the cockpit of an airplane, you need to know how to fly an airplane on your own. Yes, it's a different ballgame when you're working in a crew environment, and it requires specialized training (which I don't think is focused on enough) but that sort of training should be above and beyond the basic private and commercial certificates, not a replacement for it.

Get at least your PPL, and if you want to go for an MPL after that, then you can think about it. But definitely get a license to fly on your own.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4982 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

I don't see this catching on, as there so very many, very qualified, fully trained and experienced pilots looking for work right now in the world. Why would an airline hire someone who is not?

If you look at Air Canada, for Ultra Long Haul flying requiring augment pilots, the Relief Pilots are regular pilots who have bid that position on the equipment bids. While they are in a non-landing and take-off position, they ARE trained to land just in case, and before they were even hired by AC, they had many thousands of hours flying experience, and an Airline Transport Pilot License.

IMO, if you are looking for an airline pilot career, best to follow the normal process ... and grind.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSampson777 From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

Thank you for the replies Mir and longhauler. I plan to work in airport ops at YOW while doing my training. Can't wait to start flying those Katana's!


Making Mom proud since 1989
User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

In the current environment post CO 3407... I don't think this will go over well in the United States... As is they're upset about fully commercial licensed pilots with as low as 250 hrs serving as F/O's.


"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineSampson777 From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 4):
In the current environment post CO 3407... I don't think this will go over well in the United States... As is they're upset about fully commercial licensed pilots with as low as 250 hrs serving as F/O's.

Yes indeed. If the Bill passes (not sure if it has yet or not), what will happen to all the Flying Academies that train pilots for F/O positions? Will they just continue to provide training and let students go once they have graduated?

I have alway thought you guys had it easy down there, with these programs    even though I understand that the selection and training process is real tough!



Making Mom proud since 1989
User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Within the last year I was issued one of the new TC "passport" documents and noticed the MPL definition in there. Correct me if I'm wrong (as I haven't really done my research) but isn't this license just a glorified version of the IATRA exam some people write? That being said, these people will be F/O's for life as they wont (unless somewhere in the past) meet the PIC requirements for an ATPL.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
Get at least your PPL, and if you want to go for an MPL after that, then you can think about it. But definitely get a license to fly on your own.

Are you saying the MPL just completely bi-passes the CPL stage?

Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
IMO, if you are looking for an airline pilot career, best to follow the normal process ... and grind.

I agree with you 100% longhauler. I've always been a supporter of building experience as you go. Obviously as you go up systems become more abundant and complicated. I'm about the baby steps; learning more and more as you gain experience of larger and different aircraft. I remember my first gig as a 250hr wonder, I felt ready but those two turbines were a heck of a step up from the pistons. I can't imagine a guy coming off a CPL with some RJ sim time feeling confident about flying the real thing!! It's kind of like passing your drivers test at 17yr old and going straight into an F1 car...if you ask me 
Quoting Sampson777 (Reply 5):
I have alway thought you guys had it easy down there, with these programs    even though I understand that the selection and training process is real tough!

They also make $19,000 a year and have $100,000 debt (assuming mom and dad didn't chip in)



Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
User currently offlineSampson777 From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 4677 times:

Quoting YWG (Reply 6):
They also make $19,000 a year and have $100,000 debt

Ah yes indeed. I worked in Airport Ops in YOW (Gate Assignment to be specific) and the F/O's I saw come off the US Regionals were pretty young. I wish I was in they're spot thought, minus the low salary!



Making Mom proud since 1989
User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting Sampson777 (Reply 7):
Ah yes indeed. I worked in Airport Ops in YOW (Gate Assignment to be specific) and the F/O's I saw come off the US Regionals were pretty young. I wish I was in they're spot thought, minus the low salary!

Be prepared to head north west young sir, and get your bag throwing arms ready. It's worth the pain for the gain, trust me  



Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21626 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4660 times:

Quoting Sampson777 (Reply 7):
I worked in Airport Ops in YOW (Gate Assignment to be specific) and the F/O's I saw come off the US Regionals were pretty young. I wish I was in they're spot thought, minus the low salary!

If you think they were young, try some of the FOs at European and Asian carriers. Not so much that they're any younger, but rather that they're as young, but flying larger equipment.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSampson777 From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4649 times:

Quoting YWG (Reply 8):
Be prepared to head north west young sir, and get your bag throwing arms ready. It's worth the pain for the gain, trust me  

Ah yes indeed. I have already begun looking into airlines up North. Just waiting to get those papers (PPL, CPL, Multi IFR, etc) to begin the good ol Canadian journey from flying pistons for a few years to the majors (someday hopefully!)

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
If you think they were young, try some of the FOs at European and Asian carriers. Not so much that they're any younger, but rather that they're as young, but flying larger equipment.

Oh yeah!. Ive heard of new F/O's training on A330's over in Asia. For a fact, I know that most new F/O's fly A320's and 737's How intense is that? I wonder what they must feel like when they do theyre first takeoff haha



Making Mom proud since 1989
User currently offlineleftwing From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Quoting Sampson777 (Reply 10):
Oh yeah!. Ive heard of new F/O's training on A330's over in Asia.

.. all the major airlines in Asia run cadet pilot programs where the cadet is type rated on 777, 747-400, 330 etc right after his basic CPL training; they fly as cruise pilots ... and do simulator checks every month...in 1-2 yrs they are released as fully qualified FO on the right seat.


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