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ILS On Tonopah Test Range Ktnx?  
User currently offlinewardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Hi,

Do ILS approahes exists onto the KTNX airport? Does it have an ILS frequency?
If not, what if there is bad visibilty or something, then how can they do the approahes if its just visual landings?

Thx.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6698 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/TNX

There are no published instrument procedures at KTNX.

Which presumably means that those who need to know, know, and those who don't, don't.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlinewardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2874 times:

So how can they land with poor visibilty conditions if there are no ILS approach procedures?

I tried landing using a Visual approach with Flight Sim with 10 miles visibility and its very very hard.....


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2868 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 2):
So how can they land with poor visibilty conditions if there are no ILS approach procedures?

Your question was answered, see below

Quoting oly720man (Reply 1):
Which presumably means that those who need to know, know, and those who don't, don't.
Quoting wardialer (Reply 2):
I tried landing using a Visual approach with Flight Sim with 10 miles visibility and its very very hard.....

I'm sorry but that shouldn't be difficult, we do it every 6 mo. in the sim. Plan turning final at a given dist, plan a 300:1 descent profile, start at about 750'/min., land. eg. 5 mi final @ 1500' ATH(threshold elev). Use any aid you have eg. VASI or even make a fix at the runway threshold for a dist to go ref.


User currently offlinegoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6005 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 2):
So how can they land with poor visibilty conditions if there are no ILS approach procedures?

The only time you'll see poor visibility conditions in the desert are when you wouldn't want to be landing in the first place, like a sand storm. Aside from that, if you need an ILS to approach and land on a runway, I think it would be best to reanalyze your piloting skills.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinewardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

"Aside from that, if you need an ILS to approach and land on a runway, I think it would be best to reanalyze your piloting skills."

You hit that statement right on the nail and Im glad you did.

Because nowadays, with all these high tech stuff, like the new EPIC avionics systems from Honeywell, makes the pilots more lazier and the "LACK OF FEEL" for actually flying the sircraft....

Lazy sounds too harsh for me to say, but ILS landings or auto-lands, tends to give away the feeling of flying....
Your right, pilots on a simulator or real flying sessions, should learn how to land by hand and using visual aids instead of a computer doing it for you....

Again, I think your correct on that one.


User currently offlinebri2k1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 5):
makes the pilots more lazier and the "LACK OF FEEL" for actually flying the sircraft....

Lazy sounds too harsh for me to say, but ILS landings or auto-lands, tends to give away the feeling of flying....

My guess is you're going to eat those words. They are completely ignorant, provide no sources, and are going to do nothing but piss off the many professionals who spend valuable time answering your questions on this forum. If you have no idea what you're talking about, you should seriously consider not speaking.

ILS and "auto-lands" are very different topics. And even planes and personnel capable of performing an autoland require the highest degree of training, certification, and proficiency.

In general, an instrument approach is designed to transition the flight from an area of instrument meteorological conditions to an area of visual conditions near the runway, from which a visual landing can be made. The minimum visibility and ceiling can be quite low, meaning there is very little time during which to transition to the visual landing and perform it. Yet, many skilled pilots do this all over the world, all the time. There is nothing lazy about flying a blind, turbulent approach with icing potential, keeping your passengers calm, seeing the lights just as minimums approach, and performing a safe landing on a runway with poor traction. I'm just saying.



Position and hold
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6841 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

Quoting wardialer (Thread starter):
Do ILS approahes exists onto the KTNX airport? Does it have an ILS frequency?

Looking at the google earth images...
There is a localizer antennae on each end of the runway, beyond the overrun/stopways... at distances that don't match the approach light cross bar distances from the threshold.

I don't see the glideslope anteenae though... but I see both ends are equipped with PAPIs on the left side. (unless that small object west side of runway 32 abeam of the 500ft marker is a glideslope transmitter, and the one at about 700ft from the other end also on the west side is too.

But, as the saying goes... "those who don't need to know, does not need to know the details of it."   

Quoting wardialer (Reply 5):
Lazy sounds too harsh for me to say, but ILS landings or auto-lands, tends to give away the feeling of flying....

should learn how to land by hand and using visual aids instead of a computer doing it for you....

If one cannot land the aircraft visually, ie: manual and with visual navigation means within the airport area... you'd be out of the job even if you're flying the latest aircraft with the latest gizmos.

Landing manually and visually, is part of the sim recurrents... otherwise, the next instrument failure on board an aircraft would result in injuries and/or death...

There are still many runway ends in the world served by the latest airliners that doesn't have an ILS... some don't even have an instrument procedure for it... so it's bye bye autopilot for those landings...

Quoting wardialer (Reply 2):
I tried landing using a Visual approach with Flight Sim with 10 miles visibility and its very very hard.....

If you find it hard with 10mile viz, then there's something wrong in your technique or maybe you loaded the aircraft incorrectly... a flightsim (MSFS?) is a flight sim, but you still gotta fly it and prepare it properly to get maximum enjoyment...   



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Quoting wardialer (Thread starter):
Do ILS approahes exists onto the KTNX airport? Does it have an ILS frequency?

There is no such airport as TNX..... Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2688 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

Quoting Boeing1970 (Reply 8):
There is no such airport as TNX..... Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Then why is there a debate about whether or not there is an instrument procedure for a non-existant airport?  


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6841 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting Boeing1970 (Reply 8):
There is no such airport as TNX..... Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Quoting bohica (Reply 9):
Then why is there a debate about whether or not there is an instrument procedure for a non-existant airport?

Shhh! I know that U know that I know that U know...   



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineMrSkyGuy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Quoting goldenshield (Reply 4):
Aside from that, if you need an ILS to approach and land on a runway, I think it would be best to reanalyze your piloting skills.

The ILS system has been around for decades because it works. It's not designed to take away the pilot [which is an ignorant assumption to begin with].. it's designed to give the pilots flying in less-than-amble conditions the added benefit of a guide to the runway threshold.

I have personally diverted a number of times due to inability to safely land at a subject airport, even with published ILS approaches in place because the visibility minimums were not met. To say that a pilot flying 'visual' is the 'only' pilot, then I say I'm glad I'm not a passenger on your aircraft.  



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineBoeing1970 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

Quoting wardialer (Thread starter):
Do ILS approahes exists onto the KTNX airport? Does it have an ILS frequency?
If not, what if there is bad visibilty or something, then how can they do the approahes if its just visual landings?

If there is an ILS you can't use it anyway. Odds are the place has unpublished charts and is a TACAN approach, or by now its exclusively GPS.

In a nut shell, don't worry about it because you can't use it unless you want to meet a guy named bubba in a jail cell.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

I just don't understand why it is so hard for some people to accept that a restricted access airport has restricted access procedures. Those that need to know have the access and have the information. Those that don't.. don't.. End of story.. period.

[Edited 2010-03-16 09:08:13]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2387 times:

Quoting wardialer (Reply 5):
Because nowadays, with all these high tech stuff, like the new EPIC avionics systems from Honeywell, makes the pilots more lazier and the "LACK OF FEEL" for actually flying the sircraft....

Lazy sounds too harsh for me to say, but ILS landings or auto-lands, tends to give away the feeling of flying....
Your right, pilots on a simulator or real flying sessions, should learn how to land by hand and using visual aids instead of a computer doing it for you....


Please go fly a REAL ILS approach in a REAL plane and then get back to us on that one.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 13):
I just don't understand why it is so hard for some people to accept that a restricted access airport has restricted access procedures. Those that need to know have the access and have the information. Those that don't.. don't.. End of story.. period

Amen!


User currently offlinegoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6005 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Quoting MrSkyGuy (Reply 11):
The ILS system has been around for decades because it works. It's not designed to take away the pilot [which is an ignorant assumption to begin with].. it's designed to give the pilots flying in less-than-amble conditions the added benefit of a guide to the runway threshold.

I have personally diverted a number of times due to inability to safely land at a subject airport, even with published ILS approaches in place because the visibility minimums were not met. To say that a pilot flying 'visual' is the 'only' pilot, then I say I'm glad I'm not a passenger on your aircraft.  


It happened, but it took 7 replies this time for someone to take what I said out of context.

The point of my post is that if he is landing at an airport in the middle of the desert, where visibility RARELY, or even DOES NOT drop below 10 miles, let alone 3 miles, he would not NEED an ILS approach to land here. If he needed an ILS to land at an airport where it's CAVU every day, his piloting skills are poor.

[Edited 2010-03-16 12:10:36]


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offline411A From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1826 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

ILS frequency 109.5....worked OK last month when I was there.
Dunno about now.


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