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Door Arming/disarming  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8415 times:

All airlines I have flown on in the last ten years have had some form of "Cabin Crew Arm/Disarm Doors", usually during push back or gate arrival. When did this become part of standard ops? I recall discussion suggesting that in the 1960s the doors on 707/DC-8 etc etc were never armed, and the girt bars only put in place during emergency situations.

Speaking to people who flew in the 60s/70s, they don't recall ANY form of door arming PA's being made to cabin crew at the time.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEleVAted From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8400 times:

The arming/disarming PA announcement is airline specific. It's not required under any FAR.

We are cued to arm/disarm our doors when the lead announces that the cabin door has been closed for departure or the FSB sign is off during arrival. There is no need to announce it to the cabin. The 3rd FA will call to the lead that L2 and R2 doors are armed as well as it shows on the FAP.


User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8401 times:

I should add, I am NOT a Flight Attendant, hence the error I obviously made, but all Australian airlines, and the Asian, European and North American airlines I have flown on ALL had the cabin announcement for arming/disarming

User currently offlineEleVAted From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

After landing on V Australia, hop over the nearest gate and take Virgin America flight and you will never hear that announcement!

User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3790 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8211 times:

Regulations and aircraft ops manuals require doors to be armed during taxi and throughout the flight.

PA announcements by cockpit crew aren't legally required, but they're a handy way of coordinating the cabin crew actions with the condition of the aircraft, thus many airlines include them in their standard procedures.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8131 times:

Quoting EleVAted (Reply 3):

V Australia "Arm doors and cross check"


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

The OP question has nothing to do with PA announcements.

I'm sure it ties back to some event, some accident where lives were lost due to delays or the lack of the doors being armed. I'm sure if we could get a time window we could figure out the event.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

Quoting EleVAted (Reply 1):
It's not required under any FAR.

While its not required to announce it, it is required by 121.570(a) to perform the arming.

Sec. 121.570

Airplane evacuation capability.

(a) No person may cause an airplane carrying passengers to be moved on the surface, take off, or land unless each automatically deployable emergency evacuation assisting means, installed pursuant to Sec. 121.310(a), is ready for evacuation.
(b) Each certificate holder shall ensure that, at all times passengers are on board prior to airplane movement on the surface, at least one floor-level exit provides for the egress of passengers through normal or emergency means.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlinemusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1093 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 7830 times:

Funny thing is, when there are three FAs on an A319, on the rear doors, usually there will only one FA there, how can they cross check?

Some aircraft also has just one FA.

Regards
musapapaya



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 7824 times:

Quoting EleVAted (Reply 3):
After landing on V Australia, hop over the nearest gate and take Virgin America flight and you will never hear that announcement!

Until they accidentally blow a couple slides  



DMI
User currently offlinexero9 From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 7813 times:

Once again, excuse my ignorance, as I only get to fly commercially once in a blue moon, but what exactly is arming the door?

From what I gather, it has something to do with the slide being deployed if the door is open? Or is there more to it?

Also, the last time I flew Air Canada I sat right by an emergency exit (never sat that close before), and I saw them move some lever and put some kind of pin in the door, I'm guess they were arming it?


User currently offlineFX772LRF From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 675 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 7810 times:

Quoting xero9 (Reply 10):
nce again, excuse my ignorance, as I only get to fly commercially once in a blue moon, but what exactly is arming the door?

From what I gather, it has something to do with the slide being deployed if the door is open? Or is there more to it?

Also, the last time I flew Air Canada I sat right by an emergency exit (never sat that close before), and I saw them move some lever and put some kind of pin in the door, I'm guess they were arming it?

The lever was arming the door, afaik, and the pin - which usually has a red ribbon - is inserted as such that the ribbon covers the window, so that people such as rampers/provisioners/jetway operators go to open the door, they know it is still armed.

-Noah   



Cleared to IAH via CLL 076 radial/BAZBL/RIICE3, up to 3k, 7k in 10, departure on 134.3, squawk 4676, Colgan 9581.
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2712 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7709 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
I'm sure it ties back to some event, some accident where lives were lost due to delays or the lack of the doors being armed. I'm sure if we could get a time window we could figure out the event.

It was TWA flight 800, a Boeing 707, on November 23, 1964 in Rome, Italy. It was an aborted takeoff and apparently a thrust reverser malfunctioned causing the 707 to veer off the runway and the plane struck construction equipment causing a fire.

In 1964 the slides were not stored in the door. They were in ceiling compartments near the doors.

To evacuate the airplane in an emergency the procedure was basically this:
1. Open the door.
2. Open the ceiling compartment and pull out the slide pack.
3. Attach the girt bar of the slide pack to the floor at the base of the door then throw slide pack outside the door.
4. Pull handle to inflate slide.
5. Exit aircraft.

Obviously this procedure took way too long. Imagine trying to accomplish this task on board a burning airplane with panicked passengers trying to get out.

50 of the 73 people on board died in this accident. Every one of those deaths were preventable. Those who survived either exited through the overwing exits or jumped out of the plane without a slide. As a side note, some of the passengers who died were sitting in the rows directly in front of the overwing exits but automatically went forward to try to escape.

As a result of this accident the FAA made all airlines install automatic inflating slides in the doors and they had to be "armed" for the entire flight including taxi.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 7686 times:

Quoting xero9 (Reply 10):
Once again, excuse my ignorance, as I only get to fly commercially once in a blue moon, but what exactly is arming the door?

An armed door is one where the slide will deploy, and the emergency door opening system (if so equipped) will fire, if you try to open the door. A disarmed door will open nicely without anything else "going off."

On a fully armed modern door, the act of opening the handle will fire some kind of actuator which will (forcefully!) open the door in 1-2 seconds. The process of opening will pull the slide out of the bustle on the door and initiate the inflation cycle. From the first movement of the door handle to full deployment of a usable slide takes about 3-5 seconds.

Quoting bohica (Reply 12):
It was TWA flight 800, a Boeing 707, on November 23, 1964 in Rome, Italy.

Dang, that's one unlucky flight number.

Tom.


User currently offlineEleVAted From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 5):
V Australia "Arm doors and cross check"

I am fully aware, please reread what I wrote. Virgin America does not.

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 7):
While its not required to announce it, it is required by 121.570(a) to perform the arming.

Where did I mention that arming/disarming a door is NOT required before flight? All you did was copy and paste a FAR. You are obviously not a FA.

A little reading goes a long way guys.

Quoting musapapaya (Reply 8):
Funny thing is, when there are three FAs on an A319, on the rear doors, usually there will only one FA there, how can they cross check?

Some aircraft also has just one FA.

You are required to do your job and know what your responsibilities are. It's not hard. Door status will be indicated on the FAP and in the FD.

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 9):
Until they accidentally blow a couple slides

Again, know your role and responsibilities.

Not only is the lead responsible for arming the doors (L1 and R1 doors when there is no 4th FA), number 2 verifies doors are armed during the live safety demo in fist class. As I said earlier, the FAP and FD shows door status--in the aft a/c, number 3 will call to the lead stating, "L2 and R2 doors are armed". Then cabin is ready for push back. The pilots notice this right away because I've seen this twice right as I was about to tell the lead the doors aren't armed. He was not paying attention.

Plenty of checks and balances.

The Airbus a/c slides will automatically disarm if they are being opened from the outside when they are in the armed position. We have never had a slide deploy from cabin crew, only cleaners.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7429 times:

Quoting EleVAted (Reply 14):
The Airbus a/c slides will automatically disarm if they are being opened from the outside when they are in the armed position.

Current Boeing designs will do this too...not sure about the legacy stuff.

Tom.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17068 posts, RR: 66
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7420 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 13):

On a fully armed modern door, the act of opening the handle will fire some kind of actuator which will (forcefully!) open the door in 1-2 seconds.

Very forcefully apparently. I was once told by a 777 F/A that if I had to open the door, I should give the handle a yank, then let go since it would keep going so fast it would break my arm.

Is this so?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7395 times:

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
Very forcefully apparently.

Yes.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 16):
I was once told by a 777 F/A that if I had to open the door, I should give the handle a yank, then let go since it would keep going so fast it would break my arm

I think that's a little extreme...I've done it myself, and seen lots of other people of various sizes do it, and it's certainly vigorous but I don't think it would break your arm. Wrench your arm, certainly, and you don't want to hang on to the handle or you'll find yourself ejected from the airplane rather earlier than you want to be. The overwing hatch on the 737NG is somewhat similar, although that one is a big spring rather than a pressurized actuator.

Tom.


User currently offlineEleVAted From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7389 times:

You could be killed or very seriously hurt if you were outside and had opened an armed door.

If you were on the inside, you let go of the handle and hold on to the assist handle or you will fly out--pneumatic assist kicks in and takes care of the door. You never hold on to the door handle.


User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

Quoting EleVAted (Reply 14):
Again, know your role and responsibilities.

Everybody makes mistakes. Every airline has blown a slide, or will someday. We didn't have the crosscheck call for the first couple years, then somebody blew a side into the jetbridge.



DMI
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7294 times:

Quoting EleVAted (Reply 14):
Where did I mention that arming/disarming a door is NOT required before flight? All you did was copy and paste a FAR. You are obviously not a FA.

A little reading goes a long way guys.

I never insinuated that you did not as its so patently obvious to all. I simply quoted you and then added the FAR info to the thread. Why so testy? The initial question was about the announcement and I pointed out that there is no requirement for it, that's all. No, not an F/A, but I was the guy that F/A training called to understand the FARs and the aircraft technical aspects in order for them to write their F/A manual procedures. So since I'm not an F/A, I obvious know nothing about what you do  



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7261 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15):
Current Boeing designs will do this too...not sure about the legacy stuff.

The 737NG does not as the girt bar is still manually placed into and out of the floor fittings. The 757 does auto dis-arm from the outside or should if the handles are fully "butterflied". Like you, I'm not sure about the 747 and 767, but would tend to assume it would also.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7248 times:

With 707 through 737, the FA's must kneel/bend to manually place or remove the girt bar. I do recall also reading that the same is done on the 767, despite the fact the 767 has an arming lever located next to the door?

User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

Quoting EleVAted (Reply 14):
Quoting musapapaya (Reply 8):
Funny thing is, when there are three FAs on an A319, on the rear doors, usually there will only one FA there, how can they cross check?

Some aircraft also has just one FA.

You are required to do your job and know what your responsibilities are. It's not hard. Door status will be indicated on the FAP and in the FD

A few things, the Airbus door is the most common type of door to have an accidental slide deployment since both the arming lever and the door operating handle are adjacent to each other and move in a similar fashion, granted they are different colours and one has a flat square handle the other a rounded shape. There are many things airlines have adopted to prevent incidents from happening, they are coloured differently, one has a protective cover and an arming pin (it doesn't actually arm the door but is placed in the door arming lever to stop accidental movement when the door is disarmed) to having sensors which alert the crew via an audible warning to let them know the door is armed when they place their hand near the door operating handle.

Still, doors are cross-checked, after arming the forward doors a crewmember will proceed to the rear galley to arm and crosscheck the rear doors. We had to do that on the 757 with the L1/R1 doors as only the purser would be up there.

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 22):
With 707 through 737, the FA's must kneel/bend to manually place or remove the girt bar. I do recall also reading that the same is done on the 767, despite the fact the 767 has an arming lever located next to the door?

The 737 is still like that today (even the 737-800 & 900). The 767 is not done in that way, to quote an earlier post I did (a lengthy post on how the 767 doors are armed and disarmed, amongst other things)...

"Locate the door operating handle and arming lever, on the 767 these are adjacent to the doors. In that area there is the door operating handle (to open and close the door - to an extent), an arming lever, an arming button and dependant upon the operator a protective cover to protect the arming lever.

To arm the door lift the protective cover, press and hold the green arming button and then push the green arming lever outboard then replace the protective cover. To check that the door is armed a yellow placard should now have slid out and be positioned over the hand grip of the door operating handle, this should (normally) read "EMERGENCY USE ONLY". A further visual check to confirm that the girt bar has locked can be made by looking at the bottom corners of the door, both viewing panels should now be yellow/red/orange to indicate that the girt bar is in the armed position.

To disarm the door lift the protective cover, pull the green arming lever inboard and replace the protective cover. The warning placard should now have retracted and the girt bar indicators should now be black.

Arming and disarming in normal operations is a two person job, one to arm and disarm and the other to observe and ensure that the correct handles are being operated. I didn't include the vocal checks above as that would be long winded and not really pertinent to the question."

As for the actual concept of arming and disarming in relation to the OP, it is common over here in the UK for all doors to be armed once the airstairs or airbridge has been moved away from the aircraft doors. They are disarmed once stairs or the airbridge has been attached, though one or two airlines allow the doors to be disarmed as the aircraft is turning onto stand and has not yet stopped. Doors are sometimes armed during refuelling with passengers onboard, traditionally the L1 door is open anyway so the rear doors will be armed, though this depends on the airline and the aircraft type.

Hope that helps  

Phil
FlyingColours



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineEleVAted From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 296 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7139 times:

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 23):
A few things, the Airbus door is the most common type of door to have an accidental slide deployment since both the arming lever and the door operating handle are adjacent to each other and move in a similar fashion, granted they are different colours and one has a flat square handle the other a rounded shape. There are many things airlines have adopted to prevent incidents from happening, they are coloured differently, one has a protective cover and an arming pin (it doesn't actually arm the door but is placed in the door arming lever to stop accidental movement when the door is disarmed) to having sensors which alert the crew via an audible warning to let them know the door is armed when they place their hand near the door operating handle.


That's how our a/c come out of the gate. Yes, that is training 101 with Airbus familiarization. If you aren't familiar with basic colors and shapes and basic door ops., then job probably isn't for you. By the time the "oh, crap" light illuminates, it's too late and the slide deploys. But yes, it's an extra measure.

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 23):
Still, doors are cross-checked, after arming the forward doors a crewmember will proceed to the rear galley to arm and crosscheck the rear doors.

That is standard procedure. It just isn't announced to the cabin (and world) like I've stated several times over already! Guest quite frankly don't need to hear airline jargon...that's what the inter-phone is for, possibly?

It's verbally and visually checked: (1. via inter-phone and 2.) arm/disarm physically and verbally with fellow FA by side (in addition to the FAP).


25 FlyingColours : Yes, I meant that to the other part of the quote which doesn't appear to have come out correctly. I meant that on the A319 mentioned where there is 2
26 EleVAted : On our 319's we have 3 FA's all the time. Interesting.
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