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Best Way To Get A Type Rating  
User currently offlinetams747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15704 times:

I am interested in getting a type rating in a citation or really any biz jet, I've checked out a few places like Pan Am academy etc.. I was wondering if anyone had information on the best way to get one and a place that you would recommend. Thanks!


GEFT. We do this together.
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15696 times:

How many hours do you have? I will be honest, I wouldn't do it right now - there are always people with more hours than you trying to get into the job too and combined with the economy crisis it's not very likely you'll finish it and jump straight into a job.

User currently offlinetams747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15680 times:

I'd be doing it just to get one not really for a job but for experience. I'm at about 500tt.


GEFT. We do this together.
User currently offlinelowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15660 times:

Unless you have a job offer riding on it, I would invest the money in building time or earning additional endorsements or ratings. The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15635 times:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

Bingo. Paying for training won't get you anywhere and a lot of people look down on it. The experience of getting a type will quickly be lost if you're not flying the aircraft regularly.



DMI
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15635 times:

Check out Aeroservice in MIA. If your going to get a type rating get it for something cool like a 747 or DC10. It will run you about $8000 and take about 4 weeks.

User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 15619 times:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
Unless you have a job offer riding on it, I would invest the money in building time or earning additional endorsements or ratings. The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it

Amen!

If somebody hires you for an operation requiring a type rating, guess what, you're getting a FREE type rating! 


User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15586 times:

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 4):
Bingo. Paying for training won't get you anywhere and a lot of people look down on it. The experience of getting a type will quickly be lost if you're not flying the aircraft regularly.

I disagree. That is not considered "pay for traiing" I know a few pilots who got type ratings to further their careers. Not with 500 hrs though.


User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 15480 times:

I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have. We've all worked hard to get where we are and if a prospective employer isn't willing to pay the necesarry costs associated with properly training me to safely operate their aircraft, they're likely willing to cut corners elsewhere as well.

Unless someone else is paying for your type (employer, government, etc) it's not worth it. You'll gain more valuable experience elsewhere.



DMI
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 15467 times:

Quoting tams747 (Reply 2):
I'd be doing it just to get one not really for a job but for experience. I'm at about 500tt.

You don't need a type rating unless you have money to burn. Prices can start under $10K, but the prices most often quoted are based on the shortest course the school is approved to offer, courses that are geared to pilots with an ATP and turbine experience. Others have said it and I agree: if you have a job offer contingent upon your obtaining the rating, it could be a prudent investment, but at your level of experience you need total time, PIC, and turbine time if possible. Worry about a type rating when you need a type rating.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
Unless you have a job offer riding on it, I would invest the money in building time or earning additional endorsements or ratings. The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

  

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have. We've all worked hard to get where we are and if a prospective employer isn't willing to pay the necesarry costs associated with properly training me to safely operate their aircraft, they're likely willing to cut corners elsewhere as well.

You mean like Southwest?

Some operators make employment offers contingent on your having or obtaining a type rating; some are very legitimate (note the proliferation of B-737 schools), others are not. Choose wisely, but to contend that an operator that requires you to obtain training at your own expense before hiring cuts corners on safety is not necessarily correct.


User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15401 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 9):
You mean like Southwest?

Pay for the type that way, or go to somewhere like Continental where you'll make $20k less in the first year. Neither way is right.



DMI
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 15380 times:

Also getting a type rating should be something like a badge of honor after paying your dues and building time in said a/c. The day you pass your first type ride is one that you will never forget. I feel like I earned that first one and it made me feel really good instead of just plunking down $8000 and getting it that way. Not to mention my DE is a real ball buster on type rides and I aced it. After that I really felt up to the challenge and honor of being a PIC.

That being said I would buy my rating if SWA hired me. I didn't agree one bit with them back in the day when you pretty much HAD to have the type done just to get an interview there(up until about 5 years ago maybe). I honestly think it was a scam and someone made a lot of money on that one. Still don't agree with it totally but I can see why they do it.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 15365 times:

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 10):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 9):
You mean like Southwest?

Pay for the type that way, or go to somewhere like Continental where you'll make $20k less in the first year. Neither way is right.

Ummmmmmmmmm....yes. I was explicitly saying that it was a very reasonable decision to buy a 737 rating for employment at Southwest. I wasn't the one who said it was wrong or had any kind of problem with it:

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have. We've all worked hard to get where we are and if a prospective employer isn't willing to pay the necesarry costs associated with properly training me to safely operate their aircraft, they're likely willing to cut corners elsewhere as well.

My specific point was, in fact, that Southwest requires purchase of the rating, and if you are offered a job there and want to work there, it is worth the investment. Further, I was pointing out that Southwest (and some other, mostly corporate, operators) require purchase of a rating, and don't cut corners in their operations.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 11):
That being said I would buy my rating if SWA hired me. I didn't agree one bit with them back in the day when you pretty much HAD to have the type done just to get an interview there(up until about 5 years ago maybe). I honestly think it was a scam and someone made a lot of money on that one. Still don't agree with it totally but I can see why they do it.

Southwest is a very well-managed and cost conscious airline. If you want to work there and they offer you a job, the rating is a no-brainer. It's irrelevant whether we agree with it or not: if you don't want to pay for it there's hundreds of other guys who want that job and they know it.


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15291 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
Southwest is a very well-managed and cost conscious airline. If you want to work there and they offer you a job, the rating is a no-brainer. It's irrelevant whether we agree with it or not: if you don't want to pay for it there's hundreds of other guys who want that job and they know it.

Oh yeah, I already have the money saved up in the bank! Just in case, you know. I'm really happy right now though, 20 minute drive to work, not to mention I fly a cool dinosaur around! Heck I was proud to get my SIC type in that even though it's all paperwork and a sim ride.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15266 times:

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 13):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
Southwest is a very well-managed and cost conscious airline. If you want to work there and they offer you a job, the rating is a no-brainer. It's irrelevant whether we agree with it or not: if you don't want to pay for it there's hundreds of other guys who want that job and they know it.

Oh yeah, I already have the money saved up in the bank! Just in case, you know. I'm really happy right now though, 20 minute drive to work, not to mention I fly a cool dinosaur around! Heck I was proud to get my SIC type in that even though it's all paperwork and a sim ride.

Good luck and enjoy the Jurassic jet while it lasts; I flew it for several years, and believe me when I tell you the 737 will be no problem at all for someone like you! Good idea to have that money socked away. Fly safe!

PS I understand about the type on your license; pretty soon I will be the only guy left at my airline with an L-1011 type!  


User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15261 times:

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 13):
Oh yeah, I already have the money saved up in the bank!

Make sure you don't go into interviews at airlines that don't operate that aircraft or perhaps do and pay a lot less (CO) without time in the logbook and expect to get very far.  



DMI
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15196 times:

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career

You have a problem with bettering yourself? It sounds like he wants to do it for fun, and honestly whats going to be better experience; getting a type rating and turbine experience or doing another 100 laps around the pattern?


User currently offlinelowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15161 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 16):
and honestly whats going to be better experience; getting a type rating and turbine experience or doing another 100 laps around the pattern?

Depends on the person's background and what certificates they currently have, but at 500 hours total time, I could think of many more productive ways to better ones self than going after a type rating. For example, if the person has not tailwheel experience, go get a tailwheel endorsement. It will do much more for your stick and rudder skills than an Citation or type. A glider cert will also teach you quite a bit and could broaden your student base as a CFI. Same goes for helicopter. Helo guys can sometimes find jobs when the fixed wing guys can't. All of these will teach you much more than banging out a quickie type rating.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15153 times:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 17):
For example, if the person has not tailwheel experience, go get a tailwheel endorsement. It will do much more for your stick and rudder skills than an Citation or type. A glider cert will also teach you quite a bit and could broaden your student base as a CFI. Same goes for helicopter. Helo guys can sometimes find jobs when the fixed wing guys can't.

You realize its probably twice as expensive just to get a PRIVATE helicoptor license then it is to get a type rating for a business jet, then to get hired, you would have to get a commercial cert. Plus, flying a helicoptor wont help you much when it comes to fixed wing operation.

Tailwheel is fun but doesnt have much practibilty for someone whos going to be flying turbine aircraft in the future. And gliders sound pretty boring to me personally. I think his point is that he wants to get out of the GA field.

Keep in mind, this guy asked for advice on WHERE to get a type rating, not what would you do if you were in his shoes. Answer his question, dont tell him what to do. I'd like to get a type rating on something (CRJ, ERJ, 737) as well before I go in the industry. It can only help you.

[Edited 2010-03-22 15:59:01]

User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15144 times:

At 500 hours some training providers may not consider you eligible for their PIC type rating courses, you will need to call and inquire. FlightSafety International would be my first choice for a training provider, however, they are also the most expensive. I also believe there is a place in San Diego that does Citation type ratings in the actual airplane. This would be beneficial because you would not be subject to the SOE limitation on your pilot certificate like you would if you took the checkride in the simulator. If you are going to purchase a type rating, I would point you toward a common aircraft like the CE-500/CE-525 or B-737. Also, keep in mind not knowing your flying background, these courses can be very intense and challenging for even much more experienced aviators. All type rating checkrides are done to ATP standards regardless of the grade of pilot certificate you hold.

As to whether or not to do it - its your money. There are no shortcuts in this business and no substitutes for real experience. I hope these comments can help your decision.


User currently offlinelowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15138 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
You realize its probably twice as expensive just to get a PRIVATE helicoptor license then it is to get a type rating for a business jet,

Depends on the type, have you checked how much some of the Gulfstream or Falcon types run? Hugely expensive. I have no idea what his budget is. But if I had the money and wanted as many job options as possible, I would make sure I covered the helo side of the house as well.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
Tailwheel is fun but doesnt have much practibilty for someone whos going to be flying turbine aircraft in the future

I disagree. I picked up some valuable skills learning tailwheel. As the drug commercials say, your results may vary, but for a short course that adds a lot, I think tailwheel is a great way to go.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
And gliders sound pretty boring to me personally

I thought we were talking about improving ones self, not entertaining. Maybe gliders aren't for you. Thats fine. But even if you only do a few lessons, you will not be any worse off for having the knowledge.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
Answer his question

I believe I did, earlier on:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

If you a type for the novelty of it, just take the lowest bidder, pretty much anyone will do. If you are looking for professional development, then I don't t think buying type ratings is the way to go at 500 hours total time.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15073 times:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
Answer his question

I believe I did, earlier on:

I disagree, see below:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

it doesn't answer where he should go, obviously if he's in college no one, besides maybe his parents are going to pay for it.


Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
But if I had the money and wanted as many job options as possible, I would make sure I covered the helo side of the house as well.

Well if you really want your bases covered it would probably be wise to get a second degree outside of aviation

Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
But even if you only do a few lessons, you will not be any worse off for having the knowledge.

I agree with that but again, it sounds like he wants to get out of the GA world.

I guess I'm at a loss as to why everyone is trying to discourage him, who gives a hoot why he wants the type rating, he asked for a recommendation on where to go and people have been saying he shouldn't do it.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15069 times:

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 16):
or doing another 100 laps around the pattern?

Well that's at least another 10hours with the logbook, and frankly the way things are nowadays the more hours you got the better off you are.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
I disagree. I picked up some valuable skills learning tailwheel. As the drug commercials say, your results may vary, but for a short course that adds a lot, I think tailwheel is a great way to go

Any additional course or rating will give you more experience and skills, if you know how to get the most out of it.

But IMO If you really want to become a safer and better pilot, and have fun while at it, an upset attitude recovery training course has no equal (aside from maybe a full blown advanced aerobatics course in an Edge 540  )

I flew 15 hours in the Super Decathlon and not only was it insanely fun but I learned soooo much. I'd go as far as to say they should make that course mandatory for all pilots. Too bad you can't get the tailwheel endorsement out of it though. Not at my school at least.


User currently offlinealaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15067 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
I flew 15 hours in the Super Decathlon and not only was it insanely fun but I learned soooo much. I'd go as far as to say they should make that course mandatory for all pilots. Too bad you can't get the tailwheel endorsement out of it though. Not at my school at least.

That was my favorite course, but I cant believe they don't let you land even if you have a tail wheel endorsement! We really need a second one though since 912MA is down just about every week.


User currently offlinetams747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15038 times:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

This is the same thing as saying the best way to get a car is to have someone buy it for you.

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 4):
Paying for training won't get you anywhere and a lot of people look down on it.

I cannot think of a situation in which a perspective employer (which is what I think you mean by this) would look down on me because at some point I decided that I felt like getting a type in a citation. To me its like adding a rating to your cert, and no one looks down on you because at some point you paid to get that multi add on to your commercial cert or your MEI.

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have.

I'm not trying to further my career in anyway by getting a type.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 11):
Also getting a type rating should be something like a badge of honor after paying your dues and building time in said a/c. The day you pass your first type ride is one that you will never forget. I feel like I earned that first one and it made me feel really good instead of just plunking down $8000 and getting it that way. Not to mention my DE is a real ball buster on type rides and I aced it. After that I really felt up to the challenge and honor of being a PIC.

So you think that type ratings should be limited to only those who have been hired and put through training on the employers buck?

I would feel like I earned my first one too because I would have. Its not like you go into a place, give them 8K and walk out with a type on your cert. I would have to study and posses the same skills as everyone else that has done it before me to get it.

Everyone has had a DE that has been a real "ball buster" at some point in their training, and just because yours was so hard does not mean that you earned your type more so than someone else.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 17):
A glider cert will also teach you quite a bit and could broaden your student base as a CFI. Same goes for helicopter.

Yeah sure a glider cert would be cool... maybe but again is that not the same as adding a type?

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
You realize its probably twice as expensive just to get a PRIVATE helicoptor license then it is to get a type rating for a business jet, then to get hired, you would have to get a commercial cert. Plus, flying a helicoptor wont help you much when it comes to fixed wing operation.

I'm not sure I could have said this better myself.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
Well that's at least another 10hours with the logbook, and frankly the way things are nowadays the more hours you got the better off you are.

Okay so I fly 100 circuits in a seminole or whatever spending somewhere around half of what I would for a 737 type and thats just what I get out of it, 10hrs of multi time. Now I spend the extra 4K to go get a type in a 737 and lets see what I get out of that: min 12hrs ground school (some places Ive seen as much as 60hrs) which teaches me many systems that I might not be too familiar with because they are only on large aircraft. Then I get some sim time which in my opinion is a thousand times better experience than 10hrs of routine pattern flights.



GEFT. We do this together.
25 tams747 : I loved that course, I am curious as to why it took you 15 hrs though... its like a 6hr course
26 pilotpip : Walk into any airline interview with a 737 type and no time in it that isn't Southwest and you'll have a very hard time getting hired. I know a lot o
27 alaska737 : ok, I'm going to throw out a little scenario out there and I'd like you to answer it. I am a participant in NIFA (National Intercollegiate Flying Ass
28 pilotpip : No, but be prepared to explain it. It will more than likely come up. In your case (good luck btw) it wouldn't be a detriment but if you were to pay ou
29 alaska737 : Ok I see what you mean. I don't necessarily want to go work for a regional right off the bat. I'd like to fly islanders or twin otters or something in
30 Tb727 : That is not at all what anyone is saying. You guys are in such a hurry to get a job with 500 hours and get "paid to fly" that you will do anything in
31 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Blame it on insurance. Really? I don't remember 912MA being that unreliable when I was working dispatch. I think you new kids can't fly worth a damn
32 alaska737 : Um no. I honestly dont want to ever fly an RJ, and unlike many airline pilots, I actually enjoy flying. I dont think I'm chuck yeager either, I'm not
33 tams747 : Your missing the whole point of me being interested in getting a type. I'll say it again its not to further my career or to get myself in the right s
34 alaska737 : true because they cant decide if they want to do a 3 point or 2 point touchdown so they try and do some kind of horrible combination. Its not that ha
35 Fly2HMO : hehe weird I flew the thing almost daily never had problems with it. I guess it's starting to show its age. Oh I know. My IP never ever did a nice la
36 Tb727 : Then go get typed in a DC-3 or a DC-8. Those are real airplanes that will be a good challenge. I'm biased towards the 727 because it's a pilots airpl
37 alaska737 : I would love to get a type in a DC-8 or DC-3, if its not too expensive that is. DC-3 would be especially fun. I heard that plane is a b*tch to land sm
38 Post contains links Tb727 : Yeah, especially when light. Firm, non-bouncing landings in the touchdown zone, on speed is what you aim for, if it's smooth it's a bonus. This is ty
39 Post contains links DiamondFlyer : I'd love to get the chance to do a DC-3 as well. There is a place that does them just south of Atlanta, but its a bit pricey for my taste. http://www
40 spudsmac : Well, that could have something to do with a) DAB flies a lot more hours than PRC and b) DAB is at the beach with salt in the air. Didn't know that a
41 tams747 : Good one haha
42 pilotpip : Doesn't rust, but it sure does corrode fast. We bought a couple of their TB9s and they didn't last long before they wrote them off. Meanwhile our old
43 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Very debateable specially considering we weren't shut down for months a year due to hurricane season. That was what the MX guys blamed the rust, errr
44 cobra27 : A couple of my colleagues went doing FI (I was also planning that, but then changed my mind cause there are too much of them and it doesn't really int
45 cobra27 : Yes my point exactly, what is the point in having billion GA aviation hours if you want to fly big jets. If you are really lucky (read: know somebody
46 lowrider : I don't know what your friends have been telling you, having done a few type courses myself, I can tell you the following: 1. They add very little to
47 Post contains images cobra27 : True, True. Before you enrolle you should atleast read flight manual and checklist and procedures and concentrate sollely on flying oh ya, would you
48 Mir : DAB hasn't been shut down for hurricanes once in the past three years. The closest thing to that was the whole tornado fiasco, and that only shut thi
49 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Ah, but you see, it does happen. I remember in 2009 several PRC IPs were sent out to DAB to help ferry out the whole DAB fleet from the area for the
50 lowrider : You construct a remotely plausible scenerio for this and book the sim, and sure, we can give it a go. But regardless of aircraft size, from the opera
51 cobra27 : Sims aren't the same as real aircraft. With electricity yoke in airbus aircraft is just a souvenir to take home
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