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Ice On Wings?  
User currently offlineag92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

I just saw the picture which most of you would've seen already

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Air-France/Airbus-A320-214/1671520/L/

I'm no expert, but isn't that ice on the wings? Is it going elsewhere for defrosting, i always thought it was done at the gate, but doesnt the ice on the wings cause a possible disaster?

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Guaranteed the aircraft is taxiing somewhere else to be deiced. Some airports have deicing at the gate, others do it at remote locations (deicing pads).


Last Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ-YHZ.....Next Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ-IAH // IAH-SEA-YYJ // YYJ-YYZ-YHZ
User currently offlineYYZRWY23 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

Quoting ag92 (Thread starter):
I just saw the picture which most of you would've seen already

There is one of a LOT 737 on the top of 24hr now

http://www.airliners.net/photo/LOT-C...d=a784cd87745152834de4c523016da141

It looks like the AF A320 in your link is right behind it.

Quoting RJLover (Reply 1):
Guaranteed the aircraft is taxiing somewhere else to be deiced.

I would ahve to agree with that statement. I don't see those planes tkaing off with =that much snow ont he fuselage and potential ice under the snow on the wings. Can a/c take-off with that much snow on th fuselage (I have never seen it)?

Quoting RJLover (Reply 1):
Some airports have deicing at the gate, others do it at remote locations (deicing pads).

Exactly. Some airports have deicing pads that they use and have special drainage setup from there for the run-off of the deice fluid. At YYZ you taxi to deice pads to get deicing done.

YYZRWY23



If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 2 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 2):
Can a/c take-off with that much snow on th fuselage (I have never seen it)?

Fuselage yes, wings probably not. However, this plane is obviously not planning to takeoff...the leading edge devices are stowed.

Tom.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2820 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 2 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Quoting ag92 (Thread starter):
I'm no expert, but isn't that ice on the wings?

Yes.

Quoting ag92 (Thread starter):
Is it going elsewhere for defrosting

I can't tell you where it's going, but it would definitely be deiced before taking off, yes.

Quoting ag92 (Thread starter):
i always thought it was done at the gate

Depends entirely on the airport. Sometimes it's done at the gate, sometimes off the gate.

Quoting ag92 (Thread starter):
but doesnt the ice on the wings cause a possible disaster?

Yes, that's why they will deice it before taking off.

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 2):
I don't see those planes tkaing off with =that much snow ont he fuselage and potential ice under the snow on the wings.

Correct. Not even a consideration.

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 2):
Can a/c take-off with that much snow on th fuselage (I have never seen it)?

Probably, but it's normally not allowed. It's definitely not allowed on three-engined aircraft.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
Fuselage yes, wings probably not. However, this plane is obviously not planning to takeoff...the leading edge devices are stowed.

  


User currently offlineGLEN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 221 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
However, this plane is obviously not planning to takeoff...the leading edge devices are stowed.

Flaps and Slats will only be deployed after de-icing the aircraft.



"The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view." - Albert Einstein
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2820 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

Quoting GLEN (Reply 5):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
However, this plane is obviously not planning to takeoff...the leading edge devices are stowed.

Flaps and Slats will only be deployed after de-icing the aircraft.

What Tom meant, I believe, is that the aircraft is not going to takeoff before it is deiced, i.e. the flaps aren't set for takeoff because it's taxiing to be deiced, then will set flaps for takeoff prior to departing. In other words he was reassuring the OP that the aircraft was not going to depart with this much ice on the aircraft.

BTW there are airlines that deice with the flaps set in the takeoff configuration.


User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2420 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 6):
BTW there are airlines that deice with the flaps set in the takeoff configuration.

That's true. Last month I had a window seat on a USAir A319 in MCI and watched them de-ice the wing with the flaps in the takeoff position. The flaps stayed in the same configuration during de-ice thru take off; they never moved.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Airports that are regularly hit by wintery weather tend to have remote de-icing pads that are closer to the runways.

This means that the time from completion of the spray to take off is reduced thus catering for short holdover times that can be encountered at these airports.

Holdover time - Time from start of spraying until the fluid no longer protects and a re-spray is required.

I have remotely de-iced at OSL & HEL

Control surfaces are not moved until spraying is completed so careful attention must be paid because often flaps are extended immediately after start. Therefore you can be doing things in a 'non standard' way.

It's important to go through scans and checklists rigorously during remote deicing.


User currently offlineb78710 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

Quoting YYZRWY23 (Reply 2):
I would ahve to agree with that statement. I don't see those planes tkaing off with =that much snow ont he fuselage and potential ice under the snow on the wings. Can a/c take-off with that much snow on th fuselage (I have never seen it)?

our aircraft are aloud 3mm of frost on the fuse, aslong as it doesnt cover the static ports

none at all on the upper surface of the wing

and up to 3mm underneath the wing


User currently offlineFighterPilot From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1371 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

The Law in Canada:

Aircraft Icing

602.11 (1) In this section, "critical surfaces" means the wings, control surfaces, rotors, propellers, horizontal stabilizers, vertical stabilizers or any other stabilizing surface of an aircraft and, in the case of an aircraft that has rear-mounted engines, includes the upper surface of its fuselage.

(2) No person shall conduct or attempt to conduct a take-off in an aircraft that has frost, ice or snow adhering to any of its critical surfaces.

(3) Notwithstanding subsection (2), a person may conduct a take-off in an aircraft that has frost adhering to the underside of its wings that is caused by cold-soaked fuel, if the take-off is conducted in accordance with the aircraft manufacturer's instructions for take-off under those conditions.

Cal   



*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2266 times:

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 6):
What Tom meant, I believe, is that the aircraft is not going to takeoff before it is deiced, i.e. the flaps aren't set for takeoff because it's taxiing to be deiced, then will set flaps for takeoff prior to departing.

Exactly. I have no idea where this particular plane is headed, but it's obviously not planning to take off in the current configuration. It could be going to the hanger, it could be going to the deice pad, it could be headed for the gate, but it's definitely not planning to takeoff before something else happens.

Tom.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29790 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

Yes, that is more snow then you should fly with.

I think everybody hit the main points, remote deicing, maybe taxi to parking-not for flight.

One other reason for remote deicing is that in more eviromentally paranoid Europe you see the airport authorites doing remote deice for fluid recovery purposes.

Which is dumb because proplyene glycol is a food additive. It is put in cereals and instant muffin mixes to keep the berries moist.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
One other reason for remote deicing is that in more eviromentally paranoid Europe you see the airport authorites doing remote deice for fluid recovery purposes.

Which is dumb because proplyene glycol is a food additive. It is put in cereals and instant muffin mixes to keep the berries moist.

Except for the minor detail that many European deicer fluids contain potassium formate, a salt of formic acid. Although considered "Environmentally friendly", you definitely don't want to eat it and it corrodes cadmium like nobody's business.

Tom.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 16990 posts, RR: 67
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2160 times:

Fluid recovery is a good idea anyway. I bet the massive amounts we are talking about aren't a good thing for the ground water.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineGLEN From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 221 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 12):
Which is dumb because proplyene glycol is a food additive. It is put in cereals and instant muffin mixes to keep the berries moist.
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 14):
Fluid recovery is a good idea anyway. I bet the massive amounts we are talking about aren't a good thing for the ground water.

It is really a question of the amount. If the quantities normally used on a winter day come into a river it will disturb the natural balance of the water , especially the oxygen level and can kill quite a lot of fish over time.
In ZRH for example the fluid is recovered an then spread through the year over the fields around the airport, where it will be reduced without harming the nature.
More here:
http://www.unique.ch/dokumente/?ID_s...f_De-Icing_sewage.pdf&ID_doku=2666
This has nothing to do with eviromentally paranoid.



"The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view." - Albert Einstein
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