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Canada Airport Firefighting Services Requirements  
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Posted (4 years 5 months ago) and read 4421 times:

I spotted the following in Transport Canada daily incident reports, referring to a 727-200 freighter operated by Cargojet Airways, a Canadian cargo carrier with service to most major cities in Canada with a fleet of at least a dozen 727-200s, 2 767-200s and 1 757-200, plus quite a few smaller propeller types. Their hub is Hamilton, Ontario (YHM). The 727 hydroplaned off the end of a wet runway at Moncton, New Brunswick (YQM) at 3:10AM local time on March 24. Fortunately no injuries and apparently no aircraft damage.


At 06:10Z, CJT620, Boeing 727-200 cargo aircraft, enroute from Hamilton (CYHM) to Moncton (CYQM), hydroplaned off the end of Runway 06 at Moncton. There was no fire. The three crewmembers were not injured. The airport Crash Fire Rescue (CFR) was not available so the Dieppe fire department was called, arriving at approximately 06:30Z. The aircraft is stuck in the mud and will take some time to remove but there does not appear to be any damage to the aircraft. Runway 06 is NOTAM’ed closed until 13:00Z. TSB Evaluating.


Related news item. Airport manager is quoted saying, "our emergency response plan kicked in as it was supposed to."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswi...argo-plane-moncton-runway-843.html

What concerned me in the incident report is the reference to the airport firefighting service not being available and having to wait for a local fire department from a nearby suburb of Moncton to arrive 20 minutes after the incident. That doesn't seem like a very good "emergency response plan". I somehow thought airports handling aircraft as large as a 727 would have to have on-site fire/rescue services whenever aircraft were operating. Or do different rules apply for freighters or in the middle of the night? Most freighters of course operate at night.

Obviously, that could have been much more serious, for example if the aircraft had caught fire or hit something after leaving the runway, especially if it had been full of passengers.

Canada normally has very strict regulations and an excellent safety record, so I found it surprising that a large jet could land at a time when it took 20 minutes for fire/rescue services to reach the scene.

Just wondering what the official requirements are? YQM isn't a tiny airport, serving a metro area with a population of about 125,000. Unfortunately, they landed on the shortest of the 2 runways (6150 and 8000 ft.)

5 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
What concerned me in the incident report is the reference to the airport firefighting service not being available and having to wait for a local fire department from a nearby suburb of Moncton to arrive 20 minutes after the incident.

Only a large airport would man ARFF on site 24/7. YQM is, to put it mildly, not a very large airport.

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
That doesn't seem like a very good "emergency response plan". I somehow thought airports handling aircraft as large as a 727 would have to have on-site fire/rescue services whenever aircraft were operating.

The type of ARFF isn't tied to the size of the aircraft, it's tied to the type of service. I can plunk a 747 business jet down in the middle of nowhere (assuming the runway is adequate) and not require ARFF.

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
Or do different rules apply for freighters or in the middle of the night?

Yes.

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
Obviously, that could have been much more serious, for example if the aircraft had caught fire or hit something after leaving the runway, especially if it had been full of passengers.

If it had been a revenue flight of paying passengers, I suspect the rules would be quite different.

Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
YQM isn't a tiny airport, serving a metro area with a population of about 125,000.

YQM is tiny. Although Moncton may technically have a population of 125,000, it's only about an hour and a half from Halifax, which is a far larger airport. They appear to have about a dozen commercial flights a day.

Interestingly though, they do claim to have 24/7 ARFF...it's not clear if this includes nightime coverage from Moncton, or if something odd was happening this particular night:
http://www.gmia.ca/english/handling/ground.asp

Tom.


User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1283 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4378 times:

Here is the relevant section of the CARs: http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/re...rv/affairs/cars/part3/subpart3.htm


You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 1):
Quoting Viscount724 (Thread starter):
YQM isn't a tiny airport, serving a metro area with a population of about 125,000.

YQM is tiny. Although Moncton may technically have a population of 125,000, it's only about an hour and a half from Halifax, which is a far larger airport. They appear to have about a dozen commercial flights a day.

My reference to "tiny" was in relation to the many much smaller Canadian airports with scheduled service, often with just 2 or 3 scheduled flights a day, and no large jets (or any jets).


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4268 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
My reference to "tiny" was in relation to the many much smaller Canadian airports with scheduled service, often with just 2 or 3 scheduled flights a day, and no large jets (or any jets).

Fair enough. I think the crux of the matter is that Moncton doesn't carry anywhere close to the amount of traffic that would require 24/7 on-site ARFF. In this partciular case, it looks like they fell into a coverage hole.

Tom.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4264 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 4):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
My reference to "tiny" was in relation to the many much smaller Canadian airports with scheduled service, often with just 2 or 3 scheduled flights a day, and no large jets (or any jets).

Fair enough. I think the crux of the matter is that Moncton doesn't carry anywhere close to the amount of traffic that would require 24/7 on-site ARFF. In this partciular case, it looks like they fell into a coverage hole.

Many passengers probably aren't aware that flights to/from major airports must be safer than those serving smaller airports, in the event of an accident, due to the faster emergency response and more extensive equipment available. I guess crews of cargo flights that mostly operate at night, and often to/from secondary airports, are well aware of that.


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