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Aircrafts On Approach Over Houses  
User currently offlineLASoctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6105 times:

My house is located under the FUZZY7/SUNST2 arrival in Las Vegas. Besides hearing the odd-sounding A320s fly over (like a deeply pitched low whistle), I notice another major sound. I get the feeling its when the speedbrakes are up and you can hear that sort of rumbling sound underneath them. Sometimes, the rumbling dissipates when it's just past directly overhead. I don't know, it's hard to explain. When on-board an aircraft and its on approach, the pilots will use the speed brakes, which I'm well aware you all know. The turbulence from the disruption of the airflow over the wings creates the same kind of rumble which can be heard all throughout the plane. Well, I can tell when they come up and do their business. Did this make sense? I hope so..


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19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10132 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6064 times:
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Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter):
When on-board an aircraft and its on approach, the pilots will use the speed brakes, which I'm well aware you all know.

Not always. It's not always necessary.

Landing flaps and landing gear both cause a hell of a lot of noise when deployed. Additionally, they might spool up the engines for one reason or another, and then spool them back down.

How high are the airplanes passing your house?



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User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 865 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5790 times:

I often hear A320 series aircraft make a curious varying pitch rough whistling sound as they come over my place. From where they are in the arrival, I deduce that an initial flap extension is what's causing it, but have never asked an Airbus pilot. Or could it be the belly landing lights extending?

The 146/RJ series make a considerable "howling" noise as the flaps go to the initial setting (can't remember what that was) which can even be heard in the flight deck.

Regards - musang


User currently offlineaerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2845 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Besides hearing the odd-sounding A320s fly over (like a deeply pitched low whistle)

Just curious..are they CFM or IAE birds? I think the CFM's sound mad. I've been thinking of how to describe them, and they do sound whistley..



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User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5657 times:

From what I've observed IAE-powered A320's make that whistling sound that was described, its a rather eerie sound in my opinion. I've noticed it when the aircraft are still far enough out that the flaps/landing gear haven't been deployed; an example is A320's flying downwind over the Hudson River & Manhattan into LGA.

User currently offlineLASoctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5580 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
How high are the airplanes passing your house?

I'd say 8000' according the chart.

Quoting aerdingus (Reply 3):
Just curious..are they CFM or IAE birds? I think the CFM's sound mad.

I've noticed that it's both.. Especially noticeable when HP was still around and US had a more profound presence here..



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User currently offlineTupolevTu154 From Germany, joined Aug 2004, 2185 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (4 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting musang (Reply 2):
The 146/RJ series make a considerable "howling" noise as the flaps go to the initial setting (can't remember what that was) which can even be heard in the flight deck.

The first time I heard this on the ground underneath base for 08 at LGW I was absolutely terrified, I had no idea what it was and it scared the living sh*t out of me! Obvously I am now aware of what it is. I was sat in 12A on approach to EDI on a BA RJ100 and as soon as the flaps started to extend the noise could be heard very loud in the cabin. I guess it's the exhaust being disturbed by the extendig flaps.

I know all too well about the howling/whistling A32X's make, I live in sight of LGW's downwind, base and final legs and hear them all day every day courtesy of U2 and BA A319's.



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User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2907 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter):
Sometimes, the rumbling dissipates when it's just past directly overhead. I don't know, it's hard to explain.

Isn't that the wake vortex?



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User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10132 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (4 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 4875 times:
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Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 7):
Isn't that the wake vortex?

Obviously depending on weather conditions, etc., the trailing vortices will not typically dissipate right after the aircraft passes overhead. Indeed, vortices can stick around for a long time (and left on their own, they will slowly descend toward the ground). So you might actually hear them well after the airplane has passed overhead.

However, I'd wager it's pretty unlikely that you'd hear them from an airplane passing 8000' overhead.

With that said, since all the noise from an airplane is transmitted by air pressure disturbances, I guess you could make the argument that all the noise comes from the wake  



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

I would imagine deploying speed brakes is a rare occurrence on most approaches.

User currently offlineLASoctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 9):
I would imagine deploying speed brakes is a rare occurrence on most approaches.

I wouldn't say so..

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 7):

Isn't that the wake vortex?

When 1R/1L are in use and I'm at the Sport's Park which is situated right across the street

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
Not always. It's not always necessary.

I know that, but it's not all the time that when each plane passes over, it makes the sound. I kinda thought it would have been understood..



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User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Reply 10):
I wouldn't say so..

Of all the jets I've flown speed brakes and flaps are a no-no.


User currently offlinefly2hmo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Thread starter):
The turbulence from the disruption of the airflow over the wings creates the same kind of rumble which can be heard all throughout the plane

It's really hard to tell what sound you are hearing. It is highly unlikely you can hear the wake turbulence anywhere above 500ft AGL Aside from the engines, the most significant source of exterior sound will be the landing gear and flaps. Even a plane in a clean configuration makes plenty of noise. I've noticed planes flying over head at what seemingly is idle speed get much noisier as the extend the gear. Heck it is really obvious from inside the cabin as it is.

On a side note, gliders can be surprisingly noisy.

Quoting aerdingus (Reply 3):

Just curious..are they CFM or IAE birds? I think the CFM's sound mad. I've been thinking of how to describe them, and they do sound whistley..

You're probably thinking of IAE engines. The CFM A320s, and 737s for that matter, don't make that distinctive sound.

Quoting 747fan (Reply 4):
From what I've observed IAE-powered A320's make that whistling sound that was described, its a rather eerie sound in my opinion.

Agreed. First time I heard an A320 when I was a kid it sent major shivers down my spine.


User currently offlineLASoctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 11):
Of all the jets I've flown speed brakes and flaps are a no-no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3biboNC8k0Y

Quoting fly2hmo (Reply 12):
It's really hard to tell what sound you are hearing.

This is why I need to get a voice recorder! But, even if I did, it would be hard to catch one making the noise. One, because they don't all do it, and two, Not a lot of A320s fly over nowadays due to US Airways' 50 percent reduction in service here.



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User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4534 times:
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I remember reading somewhere its something like no speed brake when flaps are over 15 degrees or something like that. On an airbus you could probably have flaps two and still use the speed break.


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User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 865 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4490 times:

Quoting LASoctoberB6 (Reply 10):
Quoting 413X3 (Reply 9):
I would imagine deploying speed brakes is a rare occurrence on most approaches.

I wouldn't say so..

Perhaps a minority, but its not unusual. If a sudden short cut materialises, its the obvious thing to do.

Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 11):
Of all the jets I've flown speed brakes and flaps are a no-no.

Our 737 classics - the only limitation is no speed brake below 1000 feet radio altitude. Flap 40, gear down - the speed brakes are quite dramatic in terms of noise and vibration! I don't have to do it often, but I enjoy a challenge, and yes, a quick reassurance on the PA is important. I feel that idle thrust, and dirty as possible gives the best possible descent angle, which is more important than descent rate in a short cut situation.

CC I know you were referring to wing speed brakes. On the 146 series there was no limitation of course, indeed manufacturer's recommendation was to fully deploy the brake at 100 feet on the approach.

Regards - musang


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

Quoting musang (Reply 15):
I know you were referring to wing speed brakes

Correct. I flew a Sabreliner for a while with the speed brake on the underside of the fuselage and there was no restriction for obvious reasons. We used to just crack it open on app to help keep the power spooled up. On 727, dc-10, md-11 no-no. In fact on the -11 if you extend the flaps with the speedbrake deployed you get a warning.


User currently offlineaerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2845 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4410 times:

Quoting fly2hmo (Reply 12):
You're probably thinking of IAE engines.

Nope, mostly CFM's round my way   ....they sound kind of droning or something!



Cabin crew blog http://dolefuldolegirl.blogspot.ie/
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 4401 times:

Quoting musang (Reply 15):
Perhaps a minority, but its not unusual. If a sudden short cut materialises, its the obvious thing to do.

I understand, especially if you need to slow down per atc instructions for spacing. Or too high on approach. But the way that poster said it, it seemed as if they think it happens every flight


User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 865 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (4 years 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Quoting TupolevTu154 (Reply 6):
on a BA RJ100 and as soon as the flaps started to extend the noise could be heard very loud in the cabin. I guess it's the exhaust being disturbed by the extendig flaps.

Made an enquiry - its know as "flap hoot" in BAe, and comes from the gaps in the flap track fairings/canoes/boats/call them what you will, as they start to open on extension. As the gaps expand, there comes a point where the whistling stops.

146s had brush seals at the flap track on the fuselage wing root. On the RJ series these were replaced by a three stage telescoping plastic seal which kept the slot fully covered. It made little difference though, as most of the noise came from the canoes. If these seals stuck in the open position we could depart according to the CDL with no time limitation if I remember correctly.

Getting back to A320s, the short whistle I hear as they fly overhead (at an estimated 8 to 10,000 feet based on their position) reminds me more of the 146/RJ sound than anything engine related. I asked a 320 crew at work the other day - they were not familiar with the sound, so I guess that tells us its not audible from the F/deck.

Regards - musang


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