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What Happens During An Airplane Crash, Engineers?  
User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 19874 times:

Hello everyone,

I have been talking with a friend of mine, an historian who's working on a WWII air disaster, when a British bomber hit the side of a mountain in the Alps. Since he knows I'm quite into the airplane world he asked me if I knew anyone who can briefly explain him "what" happens when an airplane hits a solid surface.

So, speaking about physics: which forces come into play during such an event? Can we draw any "general" rule to describe the behaviour of a prop aircraft hitting a steep mountain? Where should the remnants go and, more important, which parts of the aircraft should we expect to find, 60 years after?

If anyone can answer, I'd be more than glad to put you in contact with my friend.

All the best,

JL418.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 19862 times:

I'm no engineer but even as an aviation enthusiast, I have to say that there are so many variables involved I imagine it would be difficult to give any kind of guidelines.

The materials and design of the aircraft, impact velocity,impact angle, ferocity of post crash fire (if any), possible explosion on impact (if a military a/c carrying lots of ordnance). Environmental/climatic conditions in the years after the event will obviously be factors as well. Being a layman in these respects I've probably missed a multitude of other factors, but it gives you an idea of the complexities involved.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17044 posts, RR: 66
Reply 2, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 19831 times:

In general, if the aircraft hits the ground intact the debris field will be relatively small. If an aircraft breaks up at altitude the debris field will be large, and larger with more altitude and/or speed.

Another factor is the angle of impact. If the aircraft hits the ground nose first and perpendicular, it will be very severely deformed and the debris field will be very contained. However if it hits at a very shallow angle, it will suffer less damage and the debris field will be larger. Terrain features such as rocks, boulders, ground composition and trees also affect damage and debris field.

You would find things that have not decayed. The last things to go will be spars and other heavy parts. Human tissue will go fast, as will most textiles. For the the metals, it depends on how quickly corrosion acts in the climate. You should at least find things like spars, stringers, glass, weapons, belt buckles, metal skin components, wheel hubs, axles and such.

In the excellent "Air Disaster" books by MacArthur Jobs you'll find some superb illustrations that might give you some background.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2438 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 19767 times:

Here is a link of pictures of a 40 year old crash site of a Martin 404 twin prop aircraft. The Wichita State University football team crashed in the Colorado mountains on the way to Utah. Also attached is the official NTSB accident report describing the details.

http://coloradowreckchasing.com/wichita404/wichita404.html

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR71-04.pdf



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 19749 times:

When in college I actually took a class on aircraft accident investigations. There are a lot of factors, but if you are looking at the debris, there are some clues you can get early on.

First off, what is the position of the tail? If an airplane crashes nose down, then the tail will typically separate and end up ahead of the nose since it has more mass. If a plane crashes nose up, then the tail will be at the back of the wreck.

Another good clue is the state of the bodies (sorry if this appears grim). The bodies can provide a lot of information. If they still have clothes on, then the airplane probably did not break up in flight. However, if they were stripped, that meant the cabin disintegrated in the air. Also, if a water landing, is there water in the lungs? That can indicate if they were conscious upon hitting the water or not.

Engines always provide a lot of information. You can look at how they were separated if at all. Also, looking at the damage can indicate if they were turning or not during impact which can provide information about engine failures.

Debris pattern also helps indicate the attitude of the airplane. If it was at a steep angle, then the debris field will be small and there will be very little recognizable debris. If the angle was less, then it will be more spread out and the debris items will be larger and more distinguishable.

There is a lot more that can be said. If you want a lot of good information, there are some textbooks on the subject that Embry Riddle uses that might help your research.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19682 times:

Consult an aviation archaeologist if you can find one, if the crash site has not suffered too much damage over the years besides a little salvage, in all likelihood they will be able to shed light on most details of a crash that you are interested in, for example impact course (plus or minus 10 degrees say in many cases), approximate speeds, damage to the aircraft before impact, attitude at impact, the list goes on.

User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19672 times:

There is a very good book on how planes crash written by a UND engineering Professor named George Bibel called "Beyond the Black Box" that will answer your questions in a quite readable fashion.

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Black-B...UTF8&s=books&qid=1269965963&sr=8-1

[Edited to add link.]

[Edited 2010-03-30 09:20:20]

User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 7, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 19516 times:

Quoting JL418 (Thread starter):

Can you give any clues, such as date, location and aircraft type? I spend two to four weeks a year in Switzerland and I'm curious.


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19440 times:

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 1):
I'm no engineer but even as an aviation enthusiast, I have to say that there are so many variables involved I imagine it would be difficult to give any kind of guidelines.

The materials and design of the aircraft, impact velocity,impact angle, ferocity of post crash fire (if any), possible explosion on impact (if a military a/c carrying lots of ordnance). Environmental/climatic conditions in the years after the event will obviously be factors as well. Being a layman in these respects I've probably missed a multitude of other factors, but it gives you an idea of the complexities involved.

Thanks EDICHC, you've been crystal clear. And, yes, it's quite a complex issue.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
In general, if the aircraft hits the ground intact the debris field will be relatively small. If an aircraft breaks up at altitude the debris field will be large, and larger with more altitude and/or speed.

Another factor is the angle of impact. If the aircraft hits the ground nose first and perpendicular, it will be very severely deformed and the debris field will be very contained. However if it hits at a very shallow angle, it will suffer less damage and the debris field will be larger. Terrain features such as rocks, boulders, ground composition and trees also affect damage and debris field.

You would find things that have not decayed. The last things to go will be spars and other heavy parts. Human tissue will go fast, as will most textiles. For the the metals, it depends on how quickly corrosion acts in the climate. You should at least find things like spars, stringers, glass, weapons, belt buckles, metal skin components, wheel hubs, axles and such.

In the excellent "Air Disaster" books by MacArthur Jobs you'll find some superb illustrations that might give you some background.

Very interesting indeed, have you got any other informations about the book? I understand MacArthur Jobs is the author, or is it perhaps the publisher?

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 3):
Here is a link of pictures of a 40 year old crash site of a Martin 404 twin prop aircraft. The Wichita State University football team crashed in the Colorado mountains on the way to Utah. Also attached is the official NTSB accident report describing the details.

http://coloradowreckchasing.com/wichita404/wichita404.html

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/n...4.pdf

That's a very useful information CJ, many thanks! The pictures of the wreck looks quite similar to those of my friend's "own" crash site, I'll email these links asap.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):

There is a lot more that can be said. If you want a lot of good information, there are some textbooks on the subject that Embry Riddle uses that might help your research.

Can you give me some additional informations e.g. titles, authors, and publishers? Maybe Amazon got them!  
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):

Engines always provide a lot of information. You can look at how they were separated if at all. Also, looking at the damage can indicate if they were turning or not during impact which can provide information about engine failures.

That's one of the most astonishing thing of this site: no engines at all.

Quoting David L (Reply 7):
Can you give any clues, such as date, location and aircraft type? I spend two to four weeks a year in Switzerland and I'm curious.

I'd like to, if only I knew more. You see, my friend has been quite evasive on the topic, and I'm not really keen in WWII bombers. The crash happened on the Italian Alps, at high altitude, in an area which is completely locked by snow about 8 months a year. The remnants are quite scarce, locals have sacked the wreckage long ago, disposing of the ordnance, recovering the dead bodies in the local graveyard and using pieces of the fuselage as building materials. According to the residual parts he had found, the airplane must have hit really hard the mountain, with a 30° angle. Oh, it was a British twin-prop bomber.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 41
Reply 9, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19429 times:

Quoting JL418 (Reply 8):
I'd like to, if only I knew more. You see, my friend has been quite evasive on the topic

Fair enough. Your post reminded me of a couple of WW2 RAF crashes in Switzerland so that got me focused on the Swiss Alps... which you never mentioned.  


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19305 times:

Quoting David L (Reply 9):

Sorry about that, but I simply don't know much more... Anyway one can't avoid admiring the courage of these crews, flying over the Alps with such primitive airplanes, loaded with bombs, must have been a remarkable effort.


User currently offlineDH106 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19297 times:

Air Chief Marshal Sir Trafford Leigh-Mallory's Avro York perhaps? Crashed into the French Alps 14 Nov 1944.


...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 19292 times:

Also remember that Aluminum and it's alloys tend to be kind of flammable metals, and will be somewhat consumed by a post-crash fire....

Next time you are at a camp fire, throw an empty aluminum can into the fire and you can watch how aluminum both melts and then gets consumed by the fire  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinetrigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19252 times:

Inertia governs the crash. It simply boils down to Newton's First Law of "mass in motion tends to stay in motion." You will find in a crash several factors that govern what parts you will find left, assuming we ignore post-crash fire.
1. Angle of impact
2. Velocity at impact
3. Mass of aircraft.
Regardless of design, an impact at 400 knots into the side of a mountain at a 45° to 90° angle, the aircraft will be pretty much gone. Only parts remaining will be small pieces and parts that have a large mass density, and by that I mean that the compact portions may have a tendency to compact further on impact i.e. engine core section. A large bypass ratio engine will have less remaining intact after a crash than a turbojet by percentage of mass because of shedding of the fan/case.

Example: Helios 737 that crashed into the side of the mountain where the mountain was at a relatively small angle. This is why you have larger sections remaining such as the entire tail section. Now take a crash such as the Lockerbie Pan Am flight or China Airlines 747 that broke up at altitude. Both had parts that survived relatively intact (cockpit sections) although they broke apart at altitude and literally fell straight down.

In terms of aviation archaeology, look at the crash sites of single engine fighters. Usually, they came in at a very steep angle and augured their way into the ground. Between the impact with the ground and post-crash fire, usually the only parts that remained were the engine and instrument panel area. They were protected from post crash fire by being buried in the dirt for the most part. Even without a post-crash fire, there is usually little left of an aircraft on a 500 knot nose dive into terrain.

Of all of the variable factors that lead up to and cause a crash, the crash itself will always be governed by the laws of physics.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19225 times:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 3):
he Wichita State University football team crashed in the Colorado mountains on the way to Utah.

I thought that was the Marshall Football team, I was wrong of course.

Which airline wiped out the entire Marshall football team? Was that on a D9?



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17044 posts, RR: 66
Reply 15, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19206 times:

Quoting JL418 (Reply 8):
Very interesting indeed, have you got any other informations about the book? I understand MacArthur Jobs is the author, or is it perhaps the publisher?

He's the author. The books are out of print but you can get hold of them from Amazon and (perhaps) Abe Books through BookDepository.

http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/sear...hTerm=macarthur+jobs&search=search
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...ks-uk&field-author=Macarthur%20Job

[Edited 2010-03-30 17:15:37]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 16, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 19204 times:

Quoting JL418 (Reply 8):
That's one of the most astonishing thing of this site: no engines at all.

I think you answered your own questions:

Quoting JL418 (Reply 8):
locals have sacked the wreckage long ago

If anything survived the crash with any residual value, the engines are likely to be it.

Tom.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25356 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 19122 times:

Pieces of wreckage from the two Air India flights (L-749 Constellation in 1950 and 707-420 in 1966) that both hit near the summit of Mont Blanc (tallest mountain in the Alps and western Europe), killing all aboard (48 on the L-749 and 117 on the 707), still sometimes appear out of the end of melting glaciers thousands of feet below the impact point. There was an article in a local GVA newspaper 3 or 4 years ago about someone who runs a restaurant near one of the glaciers. He has quite a large collection of wreckage from the two Air India aircraft, including a wheel and tire from the Constellation that appeared out of the end of the glacier almost 60 years atter the crash. Both the L-749 and 707 hit in almost the same spot just below the summit. GVA is about 59 miles/80 km. from Mont Blanc.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19501103-0
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19660124-0


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 19081 times:

The results of a crash are as varied as the number of reasons for the accident in the first place...The 9/11 planes were unidentifyable as well as the human remains due to the forces involved...flight 93 was considered by many investigators not even a crash in the classic sense as nothing was really found but tiny bits...TWA 800 was largely recoverable but the aircraft was totally desimated from the explosion and water imapact and underwater submersion corrosion. AA 587 was completely destroyed by impact and fire, the Avianca 707 although completely deadsticked, the landing was headed into 40 MPH winds which greatly added to the survivability of about half the passengers in addition to no fire as a result of fuel starvation. Many years ago at JFK an Eastern 727 on short final to 22left hit a microburst and slammed into the ground short of Rockaway Blvd with the tail section tumbling across the road. Investigators found aircraft structure embedded 15 feet underground. Like landings and take offs...no two are the same. It doesn't take much to severely damage a heavy transport airframe as they are only designed to hit air and are surprisingly made of basically flimsy materials. Engineering the flimsy materials into strong shapes is where the rigidity comes from. Below are some pix...the engines are from TWA800 in a scrapyard container. The two JT9's are completely disfigured from the event , water imapct and rust /corrosion is evident from salt water immersion. The Avianca shot indicates a broken up airframe but other than the cockpit, is in relatively good condition considering the aircraft size. The hudson river landing was in incredible condition despite water impact and total salt water immersion and no loss of life.
TWA800 engine, P&W JT-9
"I want to go to the Intrepid!...thats why I put down in the Hudson in the first place..."
TWA800, 2 JT9's
Avianca, Cove Neck, L.I.


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 18884 times:

Hey, what an amount of replies! Thanks a lot from my friend historian.

Quoting DH106 (Reply 11):
Air Chief Marshal Sir Trafford Leigh-Mallory's Avro York perhaps? Crashed into the French Alps 14 Nov 1944.

No, crash happened in Italy. My friend is currently struggling to find which airplane it was, but he's pretty sure it's British.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Also remember that Aluminum and it's alloys tend to be kind of flammable metals, and will be somewhat consumed by a post-crash fire....

Next time you are at a camp fire, throw an empty aluminum can into the fire and you can watch how aluminum both melts and then gets consumed by the fire

True indeed, so it's quite normal to expect remnants to be mostly steel and its alloys, isn't it?

Quoting trigged (Reply 13):
Inertia governs the crash. It simply boils down to Newton's First Law of "mass in motion tends to stay in motion." You will find in a crash several factors that govern what parts you will find left, assuming we ignore post-crash fire.
1. Angle of impact
2. Velocity at impact
3. Mass of aircraft.
Regardless of design, an impact at 400 knots into the side of a mountain at a 45° to 90° angle, the aircraft will be pretty much gone. Only parts remaining will be small pieces and parts that have a large mass density, and by that I mean that the compact portions may have a tendency to compact further on impact i.e. engine core section. A large bypass ratio engine will have less remaining intact after a crash than a turbojet by percentage of mass because of shedding of the fan/case.

My friend said the airplane was flying at high speed - well, high speed for WWII planes - as it was trying to dodge the mountains, so it must have been almost at full throttle to gain some altitude. The mountain's inclination is about 50/55°, a steep one I have to say. He found small remnants, many showing a strong and powerful impact - or an equally powerful explosion, or both.

Quoting trigged (Reply 13):
Example: Helios 737 that crashed into the side of the mountain where the mountain was at a relatively small angle. This is why you have larger sections remaining such as the entire tail section. Now take a crash such as the Lockerbie Pan Am flight or China Airlines 747 that broke up at altitude. Both had parts that survived relatively intact (cockpit sections) although they broke apart at altitude and literally fell straight down.

In terms of aviation archaeology, look at the crash sites of single engine fighters. Usually, they came in at a very steep angle and augured their way into the ground. Between the impact with the ground and post-crash fire, usually the only parts that remained were the engine and instrument panel area. They were protected from post crash fire by being buried in the dirt for the most part. Even without a post-crash fire, there is usually little left of an aircraft on a 500 knot nose dive into terrain.

Of all of the variable factors that lead up to and cause a crash, the crash itself will always be governed by the laws of physics.

That was very helpful, thank you!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 15):
He's the author. The books are out of print but you can get hold of them from Amazon and (perhaps) Abe Books through BookDepository.

Good, that's really what we wanted to hear! 
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 16):
If anything survived the crash with any residual value, the engines are likely to be it.

Tom.

Hi Tom, thanks for you reply. The thing is this place - mind you, I have never been there but I got quite a detailed description - is quite remote, so no roads. It's mainly a pasture for local communities, which by the way live by far below. Getting there takes several hours of walking, and even a mule would have a bad day trekking down with an engine on its back. My friend has been told shepherds used to scrap alloy to use them as spare parts to repair their hut's roofs, but engines? who would need them?

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
Pieces of wreckage from the two Air India flights (L-749 Constellation in 1950 and 707-420 in 1966) that both hit near the summit of Mont Blanc (tallest mountain in the Alps and western Europe), killing all aboard (48 on the L-749 and 117 on the 707), still sometimes appear out of the end of melting glaciers thousands of feet below the impact point. There was an article in a local GVA newspaper 3 or 4 years ago about someone who runs a restaurant near one of the glaciers. He has quite a large collection of wreckage from the two Air India aircraft, including a wheel and tire from the Constellation that appeared out of the end of the glacier almost 60 years atter the crash. Both the L-749 and 707 hit in almost the same spot just below the summit. GVA is about 59 miles/80 km. from Mont Blanc.

Yes, I remember those accidents, their echo was still heard, here, as I was a child. we were wondering whether snow - about a couple of meters per year, every winter, for 60 years, can drag down big, heavy pieces of metal like engines, tail and the structural parts of the airframe. Is it possible, according to you?

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 18):

Thanks for your reply. The examples you've cited are crystal clear imho, and I think I got your bottom line. But you spoke about modern - well, sort of - airplanes, as we're struggling with a WWII airplane which, I think, has a weaker structure. Can it be buried underground as it happened for Eastern 727 you mentioned? Moreover, the mountain side is filled with big rocks left around by the last ice age.

Again, thank you all for your time.


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17044 posts, RR: 66
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 18875 times:

I'm not really sure that a WWII aircraft would have a weaker structure than a modern one if the expected loads were the same. I would, in fact, expect the opposite.

Alloys were not as strong and neither were fasteners, so you would need more material to get to the same strength. Without computer aided design many of the parts were, at least from a modern perspective, "too strong". The current weight optimization on structure was simply not possible because it was impossible to model accurately before cutting metal.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offline3MilesToWRO From Poland, joined Mar 2006, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 18848 times:

Quoting JL418 (Reply 19):
True indeed, so it's quite normal to expect remnants to be mostly steel and its alloys, isn't it?

To be precise, steel is an alloy itself. Of iron and carbon (and lot of other elements).

Quoting JL418 (Reply 19):
My friend said the airplane was flying at high speed - well, high speed for WWII planes - as it was trying to dodge the mountains, so it must have been almost at full throttle to gain some altitude.

Well, full throttle when you try to climb does not necessarily mean high speed. Additionaly when pulling up the plane could rapidly slow down and hit the obstacle quite "gently".

Quoting JL418 (Reply 19):
My friend has been told shepherds used to scrap alloy to use them as spare parts to repair their hut's roofs, but engines? who would need them?

You don't know the peasants, they will gather anything and will find use for everything   I've heard about water pump driven by motor made of electric generator from Liberator downed in Polish mountain, for example. An engine is a lot of parts that can be used somehow. Well, maybe at least some horse walked in hoofs made from pistons?  
Quoting JL418 (Reply 19):
we were wondering whether snow - about a couple of meters per year, every winter, for 60 years, can drag down big, heavy pieces of metal like engines, tail and the structural parts of the airframe. Is it possible, according to you?

Of course it's possible. When you look at Alps, where do you think is all the stone material from valleys gone? It was all carved by glaciers. So what is one small bomber plane for a force able to move cubic kilometers of rock?

Quoting JL418 (Reply 19):
Can it be buried underground as it happened for Eastern 727 you mentioned? Moreover, the mountain side is filled with big rocks left around by the last ice age.

I think this ground is too hard to let the airplane dig into. But it's also not level, so separated parts probably keep going down avalanche by avalanche.


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18755 times:

Quoting 3MilesToWRO (Reply 21):
To be precise, steel is an alloy itself. Of iron and carbon (and lot of other elements).

Damned false friends, I read "aluminium" instead of alloy... Thanks for the tips anyone, you've been really helpful. If you're interested, I'll get you informed once my friend got his work published.


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18040 times:

By The Way,

I stumbled upon this site while trying to check into a B-47 crash at Biggs AFB (now Biggs Army airfield, BIF ) which shows the remains of a B-36 crash some 50 years later... very close to my mom's house!

http://66.49.224.55/rw/gallery/album27?page=1

This might be the sorts of parts you would expect fo find many years later at an aircraft crash site.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
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