c5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4998 times:
In the military, our pilots go through training that includes books, sims, and local training flights. But typically I never see any airline airplanes doing touch and go's around an airport. Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
JETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4946 times:
You will see airline crews being certified with 3 landing in the older planes like the 727, DC10, L1011, early model 737's,747's. The sims weren't good enough then to release a pilot for IOE straight fro mthe sim. The new sims as previously stated are good enough to certify pilots without doing bounces in the real plane.
e38 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 457 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4928 times:
Quoting c5Load (Thread starter) "Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?"
As previously stated, "Yes, they do."
These days, the quality of simulators (Level C and Level D) are such that they are certified by the FAA to fully qualify pilots to fly the aircraft.
When I got hired by an air carrier, the training program was something like (I don't recall exactly): one week of company indoctrination (finance, scheduling, bidding, general expectations, CRM training, etc.), two weeks of aircraft systems culminating in a 100 question written examination, two weeks of procedural training (running checklists and referencing proper procedures during normal and abnormal operations--this was accomplished in a non-motion simulator) and two weeks of full motion simulators (approximately 10 sim sessions, each one 4 hours long. Two of the ten sessions were evaluations, the other eight were instructional. It was something like four sim sessions and a progress evaluation; then four more sim sessions and a final evaluation).
When I was hired, I had about two thousand hours of flight time, but none of it in the type of airplane I was assigned to fly at the airline.
The very first time I actually flew the airplane and made a takeoff and landing, it was a regularly scheduled passenger flight with about 100 passengers on board. I flew two trips (a four day trip, a few days off; then a three day trip) with two instructor captains (as mentioned above--Initial Operating Experience IOE totaled a minimum of 25 hours) then I was released to the line to fly with any assigned Captain.
From the day I walked into training until my first flight was 45 days (and of course, there were two days off each week. It was not 45 days of training without a break!)
airbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4858 times:
in europe, you have to do circuit training on your first jet or turboprop type rating, the one's that follow you can go straight from sim--->line flight.
I did my 2 days of circuits on the F70 and once i move on won't have to do those. Some guys at our company are Cruise Relief Pilots for a looooooooong time and then go straight to FO on a widebody, and because that's then their first type rating they get a empty 777/747/MD11 for themselves for a day!!!!!!!!
cobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4848 times:
I think you need at least 6 touch and goes for JAA type rating licence.
I have seen quite a few of them doing here at Adria at LJLJ airport, A320 doing around 20 t/g in one day.
And then first 100 hours on the line their is a third pilot behind you
PGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 3080 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4793 times:
Quoting c5load (Thread starter): Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?
Yes at most US carriers, and many worldwide. The simulators are quite good, and IOE is there with a check airman for at least 15 hours (or more, depending on what kind of school the pilot has just completed) of real-world operation to get the big picture of operating that specific type of aircraft. There are a few operators who still need to do bounces, and I have done them in numerous aircraft from the B-737 and DC-9, all the way up to the B-744 as a transitioning pilot and instructor/evaluator. The last time I did them was in 1996 I believe, and it is an extremely expensive and generally unnecessary way for pilots to get experience.
Inbound From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2001, 856 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4765 times:
Here in Trinidad, after 737 and Dash8 sim, pilots do Base Training which is usually about 5-6 touch-n-gos in one session.
When I came back from initial dash8 sim a few years ago, I actually did a complete IR ride that also included steep turns, stalls etc.
But that eventually got replaced by doing just the touch-n-gos.
After Base Training, line training usually involves anywhere from 5 to 10 flights with a training captain and training f/o (for just the first few flights), and route check, and then they cut you loose to fly with regular line captains.
I was on a cross country ferry flight one day and we had been in the air about 20mins or so. The Capt I was flying with was a friend and I had done ferry flights with him several times before... and he had actually let me hand fly a few times. I was sitting jumpseat.. he looked over at me and said.. "Hey, you have more actual stick time then the FO" I looked at the FO and asked "How much time do you have...? " They said... "20 minutes"
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"