faro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1443 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6264 times:
I read recently that some three-engined airliners are authorised to take-off with one engine inoperative for ferry flights to an adequately equipped maintenance base. Can they really climb out on one engine only in case of loss of the other engine on T/O? Has this ever happened?
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15867 posts, RR: 66 Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6241 times:
The L-1011 at least can do this. I'm guessing that they must be able to climb out on one engine in case of loss of an engine. Otherwise this wouldn't be legal.
I don't know if an engine out in this situation has happened, but certainly two engine ferries have been performed.
There is no payload, so the aircraft is much lighter than MTOW, which is why it can handle take off and climb on two engines.
The 747 can do ferry flights on three engines btw.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3687 posts, RR: 34 Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6239 times:
Oh yes.
I have flown on two Tristar two engine ferry flights.
Quoting faro (Thread starter): Can they really climb out on one engine only in case of loss of the other engine on T/O?
Well for the Tristar, the answer is no. When planning the take off there is a Vr and a V2, but no V1. You rotate at Vr, and then reach V2 at about 1000ft. In between if you have a second failure, you go down.
So before a two engine ferry, you boroscope the two good engines. You also clean the ADP exhaust ducts (because they run continuosly), make sure the nose wheels are more than 50pc tread remaining. You offload everything, no containers, no catering, no cabin crew, no water. At the end of the runway, you run up the good wing engine to take off for a minute, then back to idle. You then run up Nbr 2 to take off for a minute, then release the brakes. You incresae the power on the good wing engine slowly as the aircraft accelerates and the rudder authority increases. At 2000ft in the climb you start breathing again.
Max fuel is around 18 tonnes, which gives you about 90 mins range.
DH106 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 621 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6191 times:
Quoting faro (Thread starter): I read recently that some three-engined airliners are authorised to take-off with one engine inoperative for ferry flights to an adequately equipped maintenance base. Can they really climb out on one engine only in case of loss of the other engine on T/O? Has this ever happened?
I did read somewhere that an L-1011 did, with skillful handling, survive an engine out on a 2-engined ferry flight.departure. Might have been an Eastern or Delta one back in the 70s/80s. I'll try & find the source again.
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Tb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1372 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6191 times:
We can do them in the 727. Would I want to? Umm no way.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6160 times:
Quoting DH106 (Reply 3): I did read somewhere that an L-1011 did, with skillful handling, survive an engine out on a 2-engined ferry flight.departure. Might have been an Eastern or Delta one back in the 70s/80s. I'll try & find the source again.
It was Eastern out of Mexico City, lost the second engine right after liftoff. Made a circuit of the field, at an altitude of 200 feet, and landed safely. Eastern trucked in two replacement engines.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6099 times:
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Quoting 474218 (Reply 5): It was Eastern out of Mexico City, lost the second engine right after liftoff.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5929 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5953 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 6): Which engine were they left with?
#2 was lost, according to this (ancient, archived) thread:
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21459 posts, RR: 24 Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5846 times:
Quoting 474218 (Reply 5): It was Eastern out of Mexico City, lost the second engine right after liftoff. Made a circuit of the field, at an altitude of 200 feet, and landed safely. Eastern trucked in two replacement engines.
Eastern also made a one-engine L-1011 landing at MIA in 1983. One engine was shut down due to an oil pressure warning while descending into NAS on a flight from MIA. They then began to divert back to MIA. After about 18 minutes on 2 engines, a 2nd engine flamed out, followed shortly after by the 3rd engine. It descended without power from 13,000 to 4,000 ft. At 10,000 ft. they announced that ditching was imminent. At 4,000 ft. they were able to restart #2 engine and make a safe single-engine landing. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19830505-2 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X43070&key=1
TZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1419 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5829 times:
We (TZ) did a few on the L-1011 that I can recall. The last one out of DFW has a very notorious photo in the database.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5929 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5817 times:
Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 10): We (TZ) did a few on the L-1011 that I can recall. The last one out of DFW has a very notorious photo in the database.
Behold, the power of asymetric thrust on the treads of a couple of nosewheel tires
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Woosie From United States of America, joined May 2006, 115 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5775 times:
Quoting faro (Thread starter): I read recently that some three-engined airliners are authorised to take-off with one engine inoperative for ferry flights to an adequately equipped maintenance base. Can they really climb out on one engine only in case of loss of the other engine on T/O? Has this ever happened?
Douglas trijets do two-engine ferry flights; it's not specific to Lockheed designs.
71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2732 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5704 times:
Quoting zeke (Reply 13): I remember a not very succesfull attempt in ANC when a MD-11 ended up on its tail.
faro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1443 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5566 times:
Quoting tristarsteve (Reply 2): Quoting faro (Thread starter):
Can they really climb out on one engine only in case of loss of the other engine on T/O?
Well for the Tristar, the answer is no. When planning the take off there is a Vr and a V2, but no V1. You rotate at Vr, and then reach V2 at about 1000ft. In between if you have a second failure, you go down.
That's amazing! You just go down...
Does ATC have to be informed of the nature of the flight and would they then impose ad hoc departure routings to avoid built-up areas just in case?
Quoting 474218 (Reply 5): It was Eastern out of Mexico City, lost the second engine right after liftoff. Made a circuit of the field, at an altitude of 200 feet, and landed safely.
Would you happen to know if that 200 feet was being consistently maintained through the circuit or was altitude gradually eroded to 200 feet till the turn onto base? Amazing that one can land an L1011 on one engine...
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5383 times:
Quoting faro (Reply 15): Would you happen to know if that 200 feet was being consistently maintained through the circuit or was altitude gradually eroded to 200 feet till the turn onto base? Amazing that one can land an L1011 on one engine...
From the reports I read (remember this happened over 30 years ago) the maximum altitude was approxmately 200 feet and contrary to previous replys the only remaining engine was No. 2. I will try and find a report in some of my boxes of stuff.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 7428 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5310 times:
Quoting faro (Reply 15): That's amazing! You just go down...
Yeah, that whole description is A+ quality interesting.
Quoting faro (Reply 15): Amazing that one can land an L1011 on one engine...
It's probably the climing and/or altitude maintenance that is really hard on one engine. The landing is going to be the easy part
charlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1077 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 5203 times:
You could 2 engine ferry the 727, you had an extensive procedure of disconnecting the generator,capping some lines,disconnecting the hydraulic pump if it was #1 or #2 eng (#3 had no hydraulic pump) and installing a cover on the inlet of the affected engine. There were also crew procedures published but I was never concerned with those.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2229 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5023 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1): The 747 can do ferry flights on three engines btw.
Here is proof that they can do it with the engine removed.
dispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1185 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4776 times:
The B744 can do a 3-engine ferry, either with the rotor locked, or the rotor being allowed to windmill, plugged inlet is not permitted.
Flaps 10 for departure is required, and operation into icing conditions is not recommended.
I dispatched a BAe146 on a 3-engine ferry from DEN to ATW a long time ago, I remember that it took me quite a while to calculate all of the numbers for the max takeoff weight - obviously the cruise altitude was not that great.
xanda From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 10 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4753 times:
First time poster here but have been browsing for years now.
Suprised nobody remembers this one of a TU-154 ferrying on only 2 as I think there was a thread on it at the time, mainly about the pro's and cons of letting the inop engine windmill or not.
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