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Squared Windows On Newer 739's?  
User currently offlinejustloveplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1065 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14980 times:

I rode what seemed to be a new CO 739 today, and the windows looked much squarer than I remember on 737's. Even than on newer 737 NG's. Am I imagining this? Is this maybe a new feature for 739ER's or signature interiors? It looked much better and seemed to send in more light BTW.

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14237 times:

Really!!

That is interesting as I've flown on many of the CO 900ER's and have not noticed a new window design. Are you sure it wasn't just the TV monitor that was squarer and it caught your attention?  

I'll have to take a closer look today.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13635 times:

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Am I imagining this? Is this maybe a new feature for 739ER's or signature interiors? It looked much better and seemed to send in more light BTW.

I think this must be a change in the interior sidewall...I'm pretty certain they haven't changed the window itself.

Tom.


User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13455 times:
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Looks fairly similar to me! The last cabin interior change happened in 1996 and the new sky interior is due to be rolled out later in 2010. Pretty much everything (except airline specific spec) has been the same across the NG range for 14 years.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11830 times:

Been on plenty of CO's ERs as well and they seem no different to me at all.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11588 times:

All of the 737 windows have and will be the same since day one until now.

[Edited 2010-04-13 15:59:36 by srbmod]


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinemigair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1920 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11359 times:

No plane will ever again have Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane but it was because cracks appearing in the corners........that´s why the are "round".....

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
I rode what seemed to be a new CO 739 today, and the windows looked much squarer than I remember on 737's. Even than on newer 737 NG's. Am I imagining this? Is this maybe a new feature for 739ER's or signature interiors? It looked much better and seemed to send in more light BTW.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2660 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10982 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane

It was the de Havilland Comet


User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10044 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 7):
Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane

It was the de Havilland Comet

Correct... AFAIK it was a design flaw in which metal fatigue from continuous cabin pressurization was advancing at a much greater rate in the areas at the corners of these windows. It was only a matter of time before these failed...



"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9809 times:

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Maybe oval windows have thrown you for a curve  



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User currently offlineTeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8736 times:

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 8):
Correct... AFAIK it was a design flaw in which metal fatigue from continuous cabin pressurization was advancing at a much greater rate in the areas at the corners of these windows. It was only a matter of time before these failed..

That's true, but the aircraft that were lost suffered failures in locations other than the windows. The window design was certainly problematic, but the root cause was in using punches rather than drills to make holes in the sheet metal. The metal itself was a bit too thin, and they failed to use sealants to tightly bond joints. In short, there was a lot more to it than just the shape of the windows.  



Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
User currently offlineViper911 From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8580 times:

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
No plane will ever again have Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane but it was because cracks appearing in the corners........that´s why the are "round".....

The OP is probably talking about the interior sidewall rather than the actual window structure.


User currently offlineconvairnut From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8580 times:

A check in the IPC's of 737-300 thru -900 has almost all of the pax windows as interchangeable so I think it's your eyes playing tricks on you....


My Hovercraft is filled with eels!
User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1306 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4065 times:

Plus the cost of a change like that wouldn't be something Boeing would undertake. AFAIK, the only 737 window change has been the elimination of the cockpit eyebrow windows, and that was to reduce maintenance costs.

User currently offlineCanadianDC10 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 346 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3315 times:

Boeings have always had square-ish windows! Airbus' windows, for example, are far more rounded.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting CanadianDC10 (Reply 14):
Boeings have always had square-ish windows! Airbus' windows, for example, are far more rounded.

The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser offered the option of round or rectangular windows. The latter were significantly larger. You could also have round windows on the main passenger deck and rectangular windows in the lower deck lounge, or vice versa. You can often identify the original operator of B377s by their window layout as the 5 original operators chose 4 different window configurations..

Pan Am - all round
BOAC - main deck round, lounge rectangular
American Overseas Airlines - main deck round, lounge rectangular
Northwest - all rectangular
United - main deck rectangular, lounge round

BOAC also acquired 4 B377s ordered by SAS but not taken up. They had round windows on both decks like Pan Am's. UA also sold their B377s to BOAC in 1954 so BOAC's fleet then included B377s with 3 different window layouts. Pan Am had 2 layouts after their merger with AOA. There were also several interior layouts, galley locations etc.

The two simplest configurations below, NW with rectangular windows on both decks, and Pan Am with round windows throughout (can't see the lounge windows).


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User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2638 times:

Tough to be true.The B737 Cabin Window shape has been the same.
Did you view it from Inside or outside.
Could it be the Sidewall panel gave that appearence.
regds
MEL.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline113312 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 576 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

Perhaps the interior wall panel but certainly not the window itself.

User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

The absolute best windows are those big, oval picture windows on the old Viscounts. Interesting development when you consider the Comet's square windows -- I think the Viscount design long pre-dates the Comet troubles.


Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting cschleic (Reply 13):
Plus the cost of a change like that wouldn't be something Boeing would undertake.

Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777? That cost had to be spread over only 38 aircraft. You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance. Also makes the product more consistent for passengers.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777?

That may actually have been the cheaper option. If the -400 was a big enough stretch to require redesigning the window belt anyway (I don't know that it was, but it's possible), then stealing the 777 window belt was probably easier than redesigning a new one explicitely for the 767.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance.

As 777 customers, I don't think DL and CO would care, since they already have those windows in their system.

Tom.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777? That cost had to be spread over only 38 aircraft. You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance. Also makes the product more consistent for passengers.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 20):
As 777 customers, I don't think DL and CO would care, since they already have those windows in their system.

Since the windows and the window frames are made to fit the contour of the fuselage I don't see how the 777 and 767-400 can use the same windows.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777? That cost had to be spread over only 38 aircraft. You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance. Also makes the product more consistent for passengers.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 20):
As 777 customers, I don't think DL and CO would care, since they already have those windows in their system.

Since the windows and the window frames are made to fit the contour of the fuselage I don't see how the 777 and 767-400 can use the same windows.

Note excerpt below from following Boeing document describing the 767-400.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...zine/aero_03/textonly/ps01txt.html

The largest single weight change resulted from the incorporation of a new stringerless passenger window reinforcement design. The windows on the 767-300ER are rectangular, and a Boeing study showed a potential weight savings of more than 630 lb (286 kg) through the adoption of the same oval-shaped passenger window used in the 777. The support structure for this new window was made simpler and lighter by eliminating the body skin stringers and using forgings.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
The largest single weight change resulted from the incorporation of a new stringerless passenger window reinforcement design. The windows on the 767-300ER are rectangular, and a Boeing study showed a potential weight savings of more than 630 lb (286 kg) through the adoption of the same oval-shaped passenger window used in the 777. The support structure for this new window was made simpler and lighter by eliminating the body skin stringers and using forgings.

The 777 is 21 feet in diameter the 767 is 16 feet. I don't see how they could use the same windows, since the window are curved to match the fuselage diameter.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 23):
The 777 is 21 feet in diameter the 767 is 16 feet. I don't see how they could use the same windows, since the window are curved to match the fuselage diameter.

The 767 fuselage isn't perfectly circular. It's entirely possible the radius of curvature of the window is the same between the two aircraft.

Tom.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (4 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
The 767 fuselage isn't perfectly circular. It's entirely possible the radius of curvature of the window is the same between the two aircraft.

Correct, I forgot about Boeings "oval" fuselage?


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