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Flight Tests Economics Vs Design Economics  
User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

I was wondering how large aircraft economic performance is revealed and the results of different birds testing versus what is expected by engineering.

The MD-11 was an aircraft that did not live up to specifications. When was this discovered and when did sales drop because of this.

I would like to hear about economics of the:
A330
A340, -5, -6
A350
A380

B747 -4, -6
B767, -3, -4
B777, -2, -3
B787 (to date)

DC-10
MD-11
L-1011

What was the expected CASM and what is the true CASM?


Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
4 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4695 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Quoting billreid (Thread starter):
What was the expected CASM and what is the true CASM?

You can't really talk about CASM as that is very airline specific. It depends on the costs (C) of the rest of the organisation, the number of seats in the aircraft (S) and the sort of routes they fly, so the number of miles (M). That is why for example both Easyjet and British Airways both operate the A320 family, but their CASM is vastly different.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlinebillreid From Netherlands, joined Jun 2006, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 1):
You can't really talk about CASM as that is very airline specific.

You can call it what you want, but my question is not about semantics but rather meeting expectations.

Ever thought about politics though. That was the best non answer I ever heard!



Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1923 times:

Quoting billreid (Reply 2):
That was the best non answer I ever heard!

It was a perfectly helpful answer, you appear to not have liked it.

There's no such thing as expected CASM or true CASM for a type (which is what you asked for).

Tom.


User currently offlineAeroweanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1609 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1896 times:
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Quoting billreid (Thread starter):
The MD-11 was an aircraft that did not live up to specifications. When was this discovered and when did sales drop because of this.

During design, the engine manufacturers supply to the airframe manufacturer "engine decks" which are computer programs that simulate the performance of their engine. The decks supply fuel flow, thrust, etc. for a given power setting. The decks are for uninstalled performance, so they must be corrected for installation effects. Also the decks are typically optimistic. Most manufacturers audit the decks and reduce the optimism, based upon experience.

On the MD11, McD had a very limited development budget, so they didn't audit the engine decks. When they got to flight test, they discovered that the fuel flows were higher than had been predicted for given flight conditions. A big aerodynamic improvement effort was embarked on and the airframe drag was reduced. At the same time, the engine manufacturers tweaked their engines and got slightly better performance out of them. Despite this, the aircraft didn't live up to the original design guarantees.


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