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Becoming A Private Pilot: How Hard Can It Be?  
User currently offlineFauzi From Brunei, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10849 times:

Hey guys. I was thinking of getting a pilot licence when I'm in my 30s, and wondering how hard or easy is it? I mean, the lessons would probably cost a few thousand dollars, no? I was reading a press release from Piper about the delivery of the first PiperSports aircraft, and the customer was saying

Quote:
“The PiperSport is sexy!” said Garhammer, who joined with his two friends to accept the keys to Piper’s new LSA at a ceremony at Piper’s Sun ‘n Fun exhibit. “You can go out and buy a BMW or a PiperSport for about the same money. But who wants a sports car when you can fly the PiperSport?”
http://www.newpiper.com/pages/PiperD...erPipersportatSunnFun_04142010.cfm

So basically is a Ferrari much more expensive than becoming a private pilot?


BI - The Asian Underdog
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10849 times:

Although I haven't personally done it I know someone who did. Apparently it's not difficult as long as you put your mind to it. Expensive yes, difficult not really. Again, the more you want it, the easier it will be. If you want to go for instrument rating, multi-engine, or even jet aircraft, it will take longer to get there and probably more expensive but for regular small planes such as Piper or Cessna shouldn't be anything out of the ordinary.

Leo.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19238 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10803 times:

Almost meaningless to put this, but for a basic illustration of cost (non-US):

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090412114027AAjiMaT

He says that 55 hours, required books, travelling to/from the airfield, etc, resulted in it costing him around £7,000.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCaptSkibi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10602 times:

Have you seen people drive cars? Most people can't do that well, at all, let alone flare an aircaft at the right height, airspeed, and proper place on a runway in order to have a good landing.

That aside, if you want it, then it'll be easy. A basic understanding of algebra & trig would probably help too with the training for flight planning and such (that's the other problem for most people).

I am a private pilot, myself. My largest challenge was that I traveled frequently for work, so my training was sporadic. Nor could I take a ground school, either, because of my travel.

I've found that as I was training, the $ wasn't so much of a problem as there was a specific purpose to going flying. Now it's just for fun, so it feels more expensive.



Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / DL Gold Elite
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10559 times:

I believe about 80% of people who can get a driving liscence could get a PPL.

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8313 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10437 times:

Quoting Fauzi (Thread starter):
Hey guys. I was thinking of getting a pilot licence when I'm in my 30s, and wondering how hard or easy is it? I

Compared to what? Riding a bike? Learning to juggle? Completing your PhD?

As flying goes, a PPL is cake. It takes concentration, determination, and a good bit of hard work, but if you want it, you can get it without any excessive effort. If you have the time and money, go for it! The opportunities gained are well worth the cost.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10407 times:

Accessibility to 'reasonable cost' training varies greatly by country.

For example - I went out last week and flew the Remos LSA for a dozen TNG at an airfield near my training school. That is a towered airport with ILS on all runways under the DFW Class B airspace wedding cake. The airport is a AA maint location and a FDX regional hub.

It cost me nothing to use that airport. In Europe, Australia and possibly other places it would cost as much as the aircraft rental in airport fees.

A potential restriction is health. For men in the United States - a surprising number have red-green deficient color vision. As do I, my father, my brothers and all my grandsons. You can get a PPL with deficient color vision but you will be restricted to not flying at night.

For a few hundred dollars in the US, you can take introductory lessons at a few different flight schools if you have choices in your area. Learn if you 'have what it takes' from more than one CFI. Test fly various models of aircraft - high wing, low wing, stick, yoke. Compare the flight instructors, the attitude at the school, etc.

Even if you go no farther - you will at least have a better understanding of what you like and what you do not like.

Now as far as ultimate costs - if you can afford a Ferrari, you can afford a LSA aircraft. Maybe not new with glass and all the bells and whistles.

Unlike the Ferrari though, you cannot just buy it and run it into the ground with none of the maintenance. Airplanes have to be maintained properly. With a few exceptions, you cannot park the aircraft in your backyard. There is parking spot or hanger rental, insurance, etc.

Most of us though are limited to not owning a plane, but renting. That appears expensive because you are pulling $100-$150 out of your pocket for every hour.

But it is a lot cheaper over a year than all my friends who race dirt track sprint cars.

I know people who spend more on Flight Simulator with new computers, multiple monitors, physical avionics stacks each year than flight training and will never get in a real cockpit.


User currently offlineN757ST From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10409 times:

Its not easy, its not overly hard. It is different, and it is something that you have to take seriously in order to succeed. It involves a lot of work to be done well, and the only way you will remain safe after getting it is to remain proficient and fly often.

-Signed a 7000 hour pilot.


User currently offlineMacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10346 times:
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Quoting N757ST (Reply 7):
the only way you will remain safe after getting it is to remain proficient and fly often.

Amen! With about 5,000 hours in the left or right seat of ME aircraft, I no longer fly alone as I cannot fly often enough to keep the edge that I feel I need to keep. I only fly now with someone as a co-pilot who is very proficient and who flies often.

Thus, it is not getting the PPL that costs so much; it is keeping it and maintaining proficiency.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlinecaboclo From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 10231 times:

Your training will be much cheaper, easier and enjoyable if you save up the time and money till you can train nearly full time: fly at least 4 times/week, with ground instruction and homework on the side. You can do the whole thing in a month, if you can devote the time to it. If you only fly once a week or less, you'll spend half of each lesson trying to remember what you learned last time, and it will drag out a long time and be very expensive and frustrating. As far as difficulty, it requires a lot of memorization: regulations, procedures, chart symbols, etc. A basic mechanical aptitude and knowledge is very helpful. It also requires an intangible, mental element which the majority of people possess to an adequate degree; that is, the ability to keep track of your location, aircraft condition (airspeed, altitude, fuel remaining), the ability to correct instantly and instinctively for wind gusts, etc and the ability to make command decisions quickly but not without thinking. And don't forget the medical requirements; a fair number of people get a nasty surprise on that point.


Freight dogs have more fun
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 10116 times:

*requested to move to tech/ops*

The PPL license is relatively easy, but can be a handful because you're starting from scratch and everything is new to you. To me the easiest courses were commercial single and multi, the toughest CFI.

If you're a foreigner however, get your TSA clearance far in advance, it is a pain in the ass to get I've been told, and takes forever.

Quoting CaptSkibi (Reply 3):

A basic understanding of algebra & trig would probably help too with the training for flight planning and such (that's the other problem for most people).

I disagree. I'm completely mathematically handicapped (flunked math courses every single year of my life on the first try) but yet I've never struggled with flight planning, and yes I was taught to do it the "old school" way just how Amelia or Lindy would've done it (minus the sextant and almanac). As long as you can handle an E6B and can solve some really simple math problems you'll be fine.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 5):

As flying goes, a PPL is cake.

Depending on how you approach it, it can be.

Quoting caboclo (Reply 9):
If you only fly once a week or less, you'll spend half of each lesson trying to remember what you learned last time, and it will drag out a long time and be very expensive and frustrating.

Agreed. You have to make it a almost full time endeavor to get the most out of it. That being said, I wouldn't get into those zero-to-hero-in-less-than-two-days programs, or any other program that will rush it.

[Edited 2010-04-29 09:02:03]

User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 10115 times:

I think it all depends on the individual. Like many things in life, flying can come naturaly to some, others have to work on it.

I think the younger someone is when they start training the easier it is for them. I only say this becuase I have watched middle age people learn to fly who struggle with straight and level. They get it eventually, but it takes time, and in aviation that means money.

Depending on the place and how often you fly, it can be done for $7,000 to $8,000.

Just a side note, it is a private pilot certificate, not a license. As a license will expire, a certificate does not.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5476 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 months 5 days ago) and read 10072 times:

I am a private pilot and I can tell you that almost anyone who can pass the medical can get their license...all it takes is time and money.

If you are really keen and you do it basically as a full time student, you can do it in a month with less than 50 hours of flight time and 6 or 7 thousand dollars.

If you are like most people and take one or two flight and ground classes a week, it could take as much as a year, including 60 or 70 flight hours and 8 to 10 thousand dollars.

If you can afford the time and money to get your license and the 150 or more dollars per hour it takes to rent a plane and the minimum of 1 hour per month rental to stay on the insurance, you'll have the time of your life.

There is also the option of owning. Used aircraft, decent ones, of the certified and homebuilt variety can be had for under 20 grand. With a partner or two, flying can be a reasonably priced hobby.

So yes, it is entirely possible for almost anyone to earn their pilot license. To fly truly is an amazing thing.

The best first step is to go to your local flight school, talk to an instructor and take a discovery flight. One warning, though...don't take that step unless you can afford go all the way...it can be very, very addictive.



What the...?
User currently offlineaviationnut12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10031 times:

I got my license in January, started training in July. I flew three times per week, weather permitting of course and kept up studying the entire time. I did read through almost the entire FAR/AIM book, not that I remember it all...... Take the PPL knowledge exam ASAP. It is best to get that out of the way first thing. Anyway, as long as you put your mind to it, it will be easy. I say if you can, go for it! Flying is fun, but when you're the pilot it's even better!


Every choice is a step, steps become direction, direction determines destination
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6971 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9963 times:

A great deal depends on where you do your training and what government rules you are following. In the US it is reasonable; I got my certificate in 1987 in the US, and I was able to do it with about 50 hours in about 3 months. I certainly endorse the idea of doing it in as concentrated a time frame as possible; as others have said, that makes it much more efficient. If you are going to take a year or more then it is unlikely you will be able to do it with much less than about 70 hours; however you do it you'll have to figure the cost on the basis of what the plane costs and what the instructor costs. Figure that half of the flying time will be solo, but you will have to figure on some ground school. In the US I would figure on 1/3 of the flying time being solo; that should give you enough cushion to pay for the ground time with the instructor. Before you start get to know the instructor as well as you can; a good instructor makes it more enjoyable as well as more effective; an instructor with whom you are uncomfortable can make the whole process miserable. Good luck; flying is just about the most enjoyable thing that one can do on this earth, IMHO. But remember the adage; there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9878 times:

Oh and by the way, don't make the mistake of learning to fly in some nearly-abandoned uncontrolled airstrip in the middle of nowhere. Do yourself a favor, huge favor, and learn to fly in relatively busy CONTROLLED airspace. It sounds daunting at first but by learning in a relatively difficult airspace will make everywhere else seem like cake and you will be comfortable talking on the radios to ATC.

On the same token, an airport with high density altitudes, somewhat mountainous terrain, and decent winds is good for experience as well.

Most airports in AZ fall under that category, specially FLG and PRC.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6971 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9840 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 15):
Oh and by the way, don't make the mistake of learning to fly in some nearly-abandoned uncontrolled airstrip in the middle of nowhere.

I don't totally agree with this, although I see your point. I did learn at the uncontrolled, unbusy strip you refer to; I then learned how to deal with busy controlled airspace later. Your point that flying in controlled airspace is very different is very valid, and has to be learned. But the advantages of a small, unbusy strip are cost and a much more relaxed atmosphere. Your instructor can easily take you to a busy field when you are ready to handle it; I certainly recommend going into busy airspace for the first time with an instructor.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9813 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 16):
But the advantages of a small, unbusy strip are cost and a much more relaxed atmosphere. Your instructor can easily take you to a busy field when you are ready to handle it; I certainly recommend going into busy airspace for the first time with an instructor.

Of course. It really comes down to the individual person.

As for me, I was always eager to jump into controlled airspace, the busier for me, the better and more fun. I spent MANY hours listening to my scanner to train myself on my spare time with ATC calls. And it paid off greatly.

My first solo cross country flight was down to DVT, the busiest GA airport in the US no less, and under Class B airspace. Many of my peers at the time told me I was crazy for doing that (they always went to uncontrolled airports, which was very counterproductive IMO), and that I should avoid busy airspace, but my instructor knew I could handle it and gave me the Class B endorsement. ATC told me "great job" several times in that flight.

So I guess my point is: challenge yourself, but keep it real. Obviously storming into ORD in a 40 year old VFR-only C150 when you got only 30 hrs under your belt isn't too smart.


User currently offlinekelpKID From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9791 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 15):
Oh and by the way, don't make the mistake of learning to fly in some nearly-abandoned uncontrolled airstrip in the middle of nowhere.

Okay....what if that's the only choice?    signed, someone who's been there, done that, and got my PPL part 61   (and took my time...8 years 1st logged flight to PPL checkride...what can I say, I was a broke college student for most of that time!)



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9742 times:

Quoting kelpKID (Reply 18):

Okay....what if that's the only choice? signed, someone who's been there, done that, and got my PPL part 61 (and took my time...8 years 1st logged flight to PPL checkride...what can I say, I was a broke college student for most of that time!)

LOL well then just do all your XCs into crowded airspace 

[Edited 2010-04-29 15:28:29]

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9730 times:
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Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
I disagree. I'm completely mathematically handicapped (flunked math courses every single year of my life on the first try) but yet I've never struggled with flight planning, and yes I was taught to do it the "old school" way just how Amelia or Lindy would've done it (minus the sextant and almanac). As long as you can handle an E6B and can solve some really simple math problems you'll be fine.

Well said. Like Fly2HMO, I'm also mathematically handicapped. I've never taken trig or calc, but it never hindered me in any way. Particularly through my private certification.

Would advanced mathematical knowledge provide you with 'a more thorough understanding' of concepts related to flight? I suppose so...but I feel the same time and effort directed elsewhere (systems, FARs, meterology, etc) will be far more beneficial.

I recommend practicing simple time/speed/distance calculations in your head. You can practice while driving. On boring drives, I constantly calculate my arrival time based on mileage to my destination. "How fast would I have to drive to get there in xx minutes", "How long would it take to get there if I drove at 30mph", etc.

The most complicated mathematical problems you'll encounter will go something like this: "If I want to descend to pattern altitude at a 500fpm rate, how far out will I have to begin my descent if my groundspeed is 100mph?"

So be concerned about simple calculations you can do in your head. Don't worry about calc/trig/etc.



Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9721 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
but I feel the same time and effort directed elsewhere (systems, FARs, meterology, etc) will be far more beneficial.

           

Agreed. Let the engineers worry about the more advanced stuff. For PPL purposes, 80% of the time simple arithmetics will suffice. For the remaining 20%, pull out the whiz wheel. Or you can cheat and use the whiz wheel 80% of the time, like I did 
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 20):
On boring drives, I constantly calculate my arrival time based on mileage to my destination. "How fast would I have to drive to get there in xx minutes", "How long would it take to get there if I drove at 30mph", etc.

LOL been there, done that. It does help though   


User currently offlinetams747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9672 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 17):
Obviously storming into ORD in a 40 year old VFR-only C150

Hey Eagle 1 and 2 will be in Chicago about two weeks from now      



GEFT. We do this together.
User currently onlinerwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9668 times:
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Assuming you have a local glider (sailplane) operation, getting your glider license first is an option to consider. First of all the cost is much lower, you will *really* get some of that stick and rudder stuff nailed, most of us think it makes you a better pilot, and it's a *heck* of a lot of fun. After you get the glider rating, the power transition course is quicker than starting from scratch, as you'll spend most of the time focusing on systems and procedures, not learning the basics of flight.

And this is well within the capabilities of most adults who are willing to focus on the effort. And if you're unsure, the low cost, and quick solo*, lets you get out and experience things without an overly huge commitment.

*Usually somewhere around 25 flights (with almost everyone in the +/- 10 range from there). That's about 7-8 hours total flight time (you don't usually spend a lot of time working lift during training). And not too long after that you can get into a basic single place sailplane, which will be even less expensive than the two place trainer - and more fun. If you do go this route, I have one suggestion - the standard tow (assuming you do this someplace that uses aerotow – winch or autotow are limited in the amount of altitude they can get you) is to 2000ft, but they'll tow you to whatever altitude you like (usually it's billed in 100ft increments past 1000 or 2000ft). A 3000ft tow after your first few flights (the first few flight you'll be happy to get off tow since you'll be struggling with flying on tow), basically doubles the amount of time you have for instruction and whatnot before you're back in the pattern - well worth the small extra cost of the higher tow.


User currently offlineFauzi From Brunei, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9632 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):
Unlike the Ferrari though, you cannot just buy it and run it into the ground with none of the maintenance. Airplanes have to be maintained properly. With a few exceptions, you cannot park the aircraft in your backyard. There is parking spot or hanger rental, insurance, etc.

Most of us though are limited to not owning a plane, but renting. That appears expensive because you are pulling $100-$150 out of your pocket for every hour.

That's not bad I think. I mean realistically, taking into account I'm from BWN, fuel is cheap, I would think parking would be much cheaper too although lately I've not seen any LSAs or similar here since the local and only flying club closed down in 2000 I think.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
I disagree. I'm completely mathematically handicapped (flunked math courses every single year of my life on the first try) but yet I've never struggled with flight planning, and yes I was taught to do it the "old school" way just how Amelia or Lindy would've done it (minus the sextant and almanac). As long as you can handle an E6B and can solve some really simple math problems you'll be fine.

Yeah at first I was worried about that but when I talked to a pilot, he said all I need is some basic high school maths. Hmm...



BI - The Asian Underdog
25 JoeCanuck : I learned at an uncontrolled, but busy, airport. We have flight services but no tower. A couple of airlines and lots of local traffic can keep you on
26 ThirtyEcho : Go take a lesson and see how you like it. Don't really consider yourself a pilot until you go on to get an instrument rating. I've been flying for ove
27 Fly2HMO : Agreed. Anybody can fly VFR without bumping into anything. IFR is where it gets really interesting. Nothing more satisfying (and eerie) than flying i
28 JoeCanuck : Claiming a pilot is only a real pilot without an IFR ticket is pure nonsense. While I encourage every pilot to never stop training, VFR flying is as
29 RJ111 : Ridiculous.
30 bond007 : Well, I'm not sure that 'everything is done for you"! The only major difference is that one is more formal than the other, and you can be sure that a
31 Goldenshield : I'd have to disagree with a few points there. If he can find a club, his costs WILL be lower, but it will also be spread out over a year or so. A com
32 bond007 : As others have said, a key to reducing costs and making your training as effective as possible, is to fly as much as frequently as possible. I'm not s
33 Post contains images FighterPilot : Try telling that to all the bush plane operators in Canada and Alaska flying around at on floats in marginal VFR weather just below the ceiling. They
34 413X3 : almost anybody with money can learn how to fly, it isn't difficult. It's not like you have a pilot gene or anything. Some people on the road driving a
35 Fly2HMO : Agree, to an extent. As with driving, there are many people out there that no matter how hard they try or how much effort they put into it, they just
36 JoeCanuck : At a non controlled airport, every pilot, (from C150 to airliner), has the same rights, unless there's an emergency. In the pattern, or any operation
37 alwaysontherun : I did it perhaps the other way round if you like, compared to some others on here. I fell in love with flying being a pax, crushed my piggy bank to bu
38 AirPacific747 : I agree.. Instrument flying is not that hard IMO as long as you know all the rules behind it. The CPL test was harder than the IR test I think. More
39 Post contains images KELPkid : I was thinking about this last night as I watched my new copy of Apollo 13 on Blu Ray: There are crappy pilots, there are good pilots, and there are g
40 Fly2HMO : Amen!
41 cerretaman : Getting my pilot certificate has been my greatest accomplishment. Took me 7 months to get my PPL, instrument came 11 months later, and then commercial
42 2H4 : I'd say a 'real pilot' is any person who operates with an extremely high level of discipline, who possesses an insatiable thirst for knowledge, and w
43 JoeCanuck : I'm all for the quest for knowledge for its own sake but if you're never going to use an instrument rating, why spend the time, effort and cash? In g
44 RNOcommctr : This thread started on the subject of the LSA-sport pilot certificate, but it hasn't been mentioned much. It's my understanding that the total cost to
45 Post contains images RNOcommctr : As an addendum, I have heard that in an LSA, the notorious $100 hamburger becomes a $50 hamburger!
46 airbuske : KCDK? I started working on my glider rating a year ago but things came up once I was ready to solo. So basically, I have stalled on that front. My go
47 Post contains images Fly2HMO : Well said. That's how I interpreted it, and I agree. There's WAAAY too many incidents in the NTSB database of "inadvertent" flight into IFR and icing
48 bond007 : ... and this is different for a Class B airport? What is this? Jimbo
49 alwaysontherun : Fair question……….. You have a point Fly2HMO, obviously. Although I see JoeCanunck´s point as well: if you don´t fly in icy conditions, and ma
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