c5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 years 6 hours ago) and read 6977 times:
I will be finishing school in about 2 yrs and graduating with a BS in Pro Aeronautics, and would like to work for Boeing. What kind of position can I try and get with that? I know I can't start right at the top (But it'd be cool ), then again I don't want to start somewhere where average joe with a high school diploma works. Don't think I'm sounding smug or uptight, it's just that my wife holds a degree in french and there ain't a whole hoot she can do with me being in the military! I just want to be able to be in a decent paying position where my education will come in handy. Thanks for your input.
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
scrubbsywg From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 hours ago) and read 6920 times:
Is pro-aeronautics like an engineering degree? What kind of work have you done? My impression of boeing is they wouldn't hire many 'green' employees. having some real world aeronautics experience will be invaluable to you, as with most engineering type disciplines where a degree is kind of more of a standard 'requirement' than the real skills they actually seek.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 hours ago) and read 6915 times:
I have no idea what "Pro Aeronautics" includes but most OEM hire collage graduates, regardless of their major, into entry level position. No major company will hire someone right out of school and put them in a senior position, there are just too many experienced engineers looking for work.
If I was just starting out I would concentrate on stress engineering, they seem to always be In demand.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14320 posts, RR: 26 Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 hours ago) and read 6871 times:
As far as I know, most of the pilots at Boeing are pretty experienced and many are ex-military. I remember reading the bios of some 787 program pilots and they were all pretty much experienced sticks who made it to the top. I think one was involved with the F-22.
Anyway, Boeing is considered pretty difficult to get into for engineering as well. Supposedly any resume with a sub 3.0 GPA gets tossed into the bin immediately. But they also supposedly pay new engineers $60k a year, which isn't too bad for four years (if you're lucky) of crap in college.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Fly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 6802 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4): But they also supposedly pay new engineers $60k a year, which isn't too bad for four years (if you're lucky) of crap in college.
That's VERY decent in my eyes.
That's one thing that REALLY grinds my gears. An engineer from my same school, who paid less for his degree will earn up to 4 times more than us pilots graduating from there when getting a job straight out of college. When I graduated there were a couple of engineers who got picked up right away by Lockheed. The one guy's first paycheck was $90K And this is not a rumor, it's 100% verifiable as my school does surveys on their graduates and verifies how well they're doing.
Us pilots, heh, we get excited if we get to fly and RJ for $30K.
Not fair at all IMO, but that's supply and demand I guess
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14320 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 6781 times:
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5): Not fair at all IMO, but that's supply and demand I guess
Pretty much. Convincing people to fly and work for the mythical 10 days a month while jetting around the world is a bit easier than convincing people to have to do actual school work for four years. All that business school crap about only having classes Tuesday through Thursday and not starting till noon doesn't happen for engineers. As they say, you have work, sleep and fun. Pick two.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
FredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2184 posts, RR: 26 Reply 7, posted (3 years ago) and read 6771 times:
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5): That's one thing that REALLY grinds my gears. An engineer from my same school, who paid less for his degree will earn up to 4 times more than us pilots graduating from there when getting a job straight out of college.
Then again, there's the time invested. Can't see any engineering degree being less than three years, whereas google tells me you can go from the street to frozen ATPL in a little more than one year on an integrated program. By the time the engineer graduates, you'll be two years of salary up and should have had a raise or two.
I also think there are more potential candidates for pilot training than for engineering.
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5): Us pilots, heh, we get excited if we get to fly and RJ for $30K.
Yeah, you should. I mean, the way the job market is going, you'll have to pay that amount for a right seat in a piston twin op soon...
(For a moment I misunderstood and thought you meant actually getting paid $30K to fly, but we know that just ain't happening anymore )
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
Fly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6635 times:
Quoting FredT (Reply 7): Can't see any engineering degree being less than three years, whereas google tells me you can go from the street to frozen ATPL in a little more than one year on an integrated program.
Well of course, you can go to those pilot factories and do it the quick and easy way. But I was talking about university programs where it takes 4 years at least and you get a bachelors degree. It took me 5 years in my case.
Quoting FredT (Reply 7):
(For a moment I misunderstood and thought you meant actually getting paid $30K to fly, but we know that just ain't happening anymore
Actually that is what I meant. That's what happens when I post at 1am.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8739 posts, RR: 52 Reply 9, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6605 times:
Not sure what you are looking for, but if you going to boeing.com/careers, you can see every job posted and they all list the requirements.
Quoting 474218 (Reply 2): No major company will hire someone right out of school and put them in a senior position, there are just too many experienced engineers looking for work.
While not a senior position, an entry engineer will be put to work right with the more senior engineers to learn and develop. The first 2-5 years spent as an engineer is usually about learning and gaining experience. It takes quite a while to develop an engineer to his or her full capabilities. There is a reason why the licensing process for engineers is a long process.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
Anyway, Boeing is considered pretty difficult to get into for engineering as well. Supposedly any resume with a sub 3.0 GPA gets tossed into the bin immediately. But they also supposedly pay new engineers $60k a year, which isn't too bad for four years (if you're lucky) of crap in college.
Boeing in general is a very competitive company to get a job for. They get hundreds of thousands of applications every year just like most of the other top competitive technical companies in the United States like Microsoft, Apple, Google, Exxon Mobile, GE, Proctor & Gamble etc.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14320 posts, RR: 26 Reply 10, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6532 times:
Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9): There is a reason why the licensing process for engineers is a long process.
How many actually bother getting licensed? Since aircraft are sold across state lines, professional engineer rules don't apply do they?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8739 posts, RR: 52 Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6475 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
How many actually bother getting licensed? Since aircraft are sold across state lines, professional engineer rules don't apply do they?
At most large companies, engineers do not need to be licensed. However, the process still indicates the skills necessary to be a professional engineer even though most engineers at Boeing are not licensed.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Eskimotail From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6333 times:
FROM A BOEING INSIDER:
AND AN AVERAGE JOE HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE:
Less than 3 years with Boeing, 21 years military aircraft maintenance and flight crew experience, 10 years airline line maintenance experience. Made 150K plus with Boeing in 2009 in my 2nd year of employment. Not sure what a Pro Aeronautics degree is but your Pro-Aeronautics degree will not get you in a Boeing cockpit. No way, no how. The most junior pilot I have seen in a Boeing cockpit was an 8 year Horizon Air pilot, with prior military flight time, with her ATP and 737 type rating in her pocket. It will get you considered for the jobs that require or desire degrees, ie Planners, Engineering Technicians, etc. While most entry and mid level Boeing Engineers are not licensed, the actual engineering jobs require degrees from ABET accredited institutions. Check out Boeing.com. On the military flight line in Seattle that I work the Boeing pilots are all cross rated in 737 commercial variants, the AEWC variant, the 757 flying test bed, and a few in the E-3 AWACS. In addition to these planes they will fly the 737 derived P8A and the chase T-33s and T-38. They are required to fly alongside the military pilots of the various programs. A lot of experience and incredible maturity required to get by in this environment. My crew consists mostly of Aviation Maintenance Technicians (most with A and Ps) of which 1 is a furloughed Horizon Air F.O., 1 is a furloughed ExpressJet F.O. that made double their airline wages their first year or two with Boeing. AMTS start at $27 plus, top out at $37 plus in 6 years and get at will O.T.
Employment at Boeing is a beast that nobody can comprehend from the outside. Great work, great experience, great opportunities, leading edge programs and equipment, but a very large company, challenged by legacy ideas and processes. Best advice if you want to fly, fly somewhere else, get your time and come back in 8-10 years. If you just want to work at Boeing, get inside, listen, learn, even from the High School graduates, and move up once you understand the hierarchy and opportunities. Oh by the way, once in, unlimited, unrestricted 100% tuition/fees/books assistance.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14320 posts, RR: 26 Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6262 times:
Quoting Eskimotail (Reply 12): While most entry and mid level Boeing Engineers are not licensed, the actual engineering jobs require degrees from ABET accredited institutions.
That isn't too hard to find, since most any 4 year institution probably has ABET accreditation. Your local community college's program to train future JiffyLube techs, probably doesn't.
I would agree that pro aeronautics would probably be enough to work on the assembly line or some other jobs, but definitely won't get a pilot or engineering job.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 14, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6249 times:
Quoting c5load (Thread starter): What kind of position can I try and get with that?
If it's an ABET degree, any Level 1 engineering job...lots and lots of folks start in stress and planning.
Quoting c5load (Thread starter): I don't want to start somewhere where average joe with a high school diploma works.
If you have a degree, that's unlikely to happen unless you want it to.
Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 1): My impression of boeing is they wouldn't hire many 'green' employees.
They hire tons of direct-from-school employees...just not to higher level positions. In a company of 160000+ people, you need a lot of people to just get the work done.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4): I remember reading the bios of some 787 program pilots and they were all pretty much experienced sticks who made it to the top. I think one was involved with the F-22.
He's the high-time F-22 pilot on the planet, even now.
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5): That's one thing that REALLY grinds my gears. An engineer from my same school, who paid less for his degree will earn up to 4 times more than us pilots graduating from there when getting a job straight out of college.
Lots more folks want to be pilots than want to be aero engineers. It comes out in the job opportunities and pay.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10): How many actually bother getting licensed? Since aircraft are sold across state lines, professional engineer rules don't apply do they?
Not really. Any large company will have a few designated professional engineers to stamp/sign stuff when needed, but by and large it's totally irrelevant.
Quoting Eskimotail (Reply 12): Oh by the way, once in, unlimited, unrestricted 100% tuition/fees/books assistance.
That depends on which union you're in. They recently changed that policy for the non-union folks, and some of the unions. It's still a good program, but not as generous as it once was.
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2466 posts, RR: 21 Reply 15, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6222 times:
Until we understand what this degree is.. it's hard to tell. if as some suggest it's similar to a pilot without a licene, there's work in cockpit doing functional and sytem test
give us more to go on and what practical experience you have. Then you'll have suggestions up to your eyebrows.
FredT From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2184 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6165 times:
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 8): Well of course, you can go to those pilot factories and do it the quick and easy way. But I was talking about university programs where it takes 4 years at least and you get a bachelors degree. It took me 5 years in my case.
Well, one year is enough qualification for pilot jobs, so that's the education they companies will pay for when they require someone to fly one of their aircraft. You're competing on the same job market as the one year ATPLs, after all. If you want more, you need to find a more qualified position which requires the knowledge you acquired through those additional three or four years to apply for.
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
DL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1761 posts, RR: 10 Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5931 times:
Is this the Pro Aeronautics degree that you will be getting?
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14320 posts, RR: 26 Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5912 times:
Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 17): Is this the Pro Aeronautics degree that you will be getting?
Interesting. So am I missing something or is this basically a program for guys who have done the pilot factory thing and are realizing that they need some sort of college degree for a lot of jobs? If so, why would they want to do this instead of something like business or accounting that would give them more options if flying jobs are hard to come by?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Aeroweanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1600 posts, RR: 52 Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5873 times:
Last I heard, Boeing has a hiring freeze. Lots of money is going out on the 787 and 747-8, so they are tightening their belts.
Fly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5781 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18): So am I missing something or is this basically a program for guys who have done the pilot factory thing and are realizing that they need some sort of college degree for a lot of jobs?
As I said earlier (seeing DL_Mech's link is from my school):
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3): If the degree is like what my school's program was, then he's pretty much a pilot, without a pilot's license. Not a wise career choice, IMO.
The not-so-open-electives tend to be pilot groundschools, but that may have changed since I graduated.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18): If so, why would they want to do this instead of something like business or accounting that would give them more options if flying jobs are hard to come by?
I don't know if this is C5load's case or even the same school he goes to, but I do know that at my school those doing Pro Aeronautics were looked down upon as every one of them had initially started in the Aero Science (pilot) degree, but then switched to Pro Aero, which is basically Aero Science but without the flying. In other words, its for those people that didn't cut it for flying, or, what happened more often than not, that didn't put the effort into it. I didn't know of anybody doing that degree from scratch, they were always switchovers.
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5737 times:
When I read topics like this I have to ask myself .... what are young people thinking? Why would anyone pay to go to a "diploma mill" when they can get the training and experience they need for a future career and get paid at the same time in the military? If you still think the degree will get you the job you desire, the GI Bill will pay for it. All around the military is a win win situation.
Read though the above site... sorry won't help much... Boeing has a cozy relationship with the school, however the degree is too general for any specific job... What Boeing will look at is you years working with aircraft and the fact you stuck with both your service time and the time to complete the course. not many loadmaster opportunities at Boeing... study things like the Toyota Production System, Just in Time Manufacturing and Kanban.. (now you know where my screen name comes from), read up on world class manufacturing, team building, manufacturing engineering, industrial engineering, etc... if you want into the manufacturing world in a capacity other than mechanic... .then be prepared to do grunt work for 5 years before you can apply your knowledge
Eskimotail From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5727 times:
Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 19): Last I heard, Boeing has a hiring freeze. Lots of money is going out on the 787 and 747-8, so they are tightening their belts.
Oh so false: There is not/has not been a wholesale hiring freeze. Some programs freeze when they hit their requirement apogee, but the current business climate for Boeing shows many unmet needs right now and continued hiring going forward. So much money is going out the door to support 87 and 47-8 that they are putting cash in the bank every quarter. The last I heard was 10 Billion cash reserve. I could be wrong on that number. Don't forget the cash income is around 300 million a week. Sure that is not profit but cash carries a lot of weight, and imagine the deductions they get to take.
In my career field there are currently over 100 unfilled Aviation Maintenance Technician and/or Inspectors positions in Puget Sound right now. These are posted and funded, waiting for people to get hired. They have hired over 1,000 Aviation Maintenance Technicians in Puget Sound since my hire date. (August 2007)
There are approx a dozen unfilled Aviation Maintenance Technicians and/or Inspectors positions in Maryland right now.
There are currently openings for about a dozen Flight Line Managers in Puget Sound.
There are currently openings for several Flight Line Manager positions in Maryland
Manufacturing Engineers (convert drawings to written work orders) are being hired by the dozens weekly around the country. Puget Sound, Long Beach, Philadelphia, St Louis, etc. These do not require college degrees.
Industrial Engineers (project planners, project coordination, tooling research and acquisition, etc) are being hired at a fair clip.
Charleston is hiring about 100 a week right now in all crafts, and will continue that pace for approx the next year.
The Boeing employment site shows hundreds of jobs posted, funded, being filled. This does not include the external contractors that are coming on to support the growth programs.
The flight line I currently work at, will have to grow from about 30 right now to over 330 in the next 2 years. This is just the technicians, (electricians, mechanics, structural mechanics, A&P mechanics) that will actually touch the product. This 330 number does not include the infrastructure to support those 330 technicians. I estimate that requirement at 1.5 or 2 to 1 for planners, coordinators, management, quality, stores, etc. The projected program growth is so strong that Rentons 3 assembly lines will not be able to handle the production, and within 3 to 4 years you will probably see 737 type aircraft being built at Boeing Field again
Boeing is trying to get away from having/hiring employees that do not actually touch or impact the product. ie plant maintenance, IT, stock room, stock handling, firefighters, security, etc. But technical, touch labor prognosis is good and hiring is active.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8739 posts, RR: 52 Reply 24, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5702 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
That isn't too hard to find, since most any 4 year institution probably has ABET accreditation.
While ABET accreditation is available at many universities in the United States, it depends on what the program is. It needs to be a genuine degree program with the correct curriculum to be adequate. Electrical, Mechanical and Aeronautical are the most common degrees for engineers at Boeing.
Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 19): Last I heard, Boeing has a hiring freeze. Lots of money is going out on the 787 and 747-8, so they are tightening their belts.
Defense right now is not hiring since they are going through layoffs, but commercial airplanes is hiring. If you want more info on engineering jobs at Boeing, the engineers' union site is a great resource: www.speea.org
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
25 Fly2HMO: Maybe because not everybody wants to be Uncle Sam's slave, or risk getting shot, or going through boot camp, or risk having your dreams shattered of
26 474218: Spoken like a true patriot. Oh wait, your the guy that runs to Mexico when the going gets tough. Millions of people join the military and never get a
27 DiamondFlyer: BS. Those of us in the campus based form of the degree (Aeronuatics) did so because it saves money. You get the degree, but you aren't stuck with fly
28 BMI727: So then what is the attraction of a flying degree without flying when airlines really don't care what an applicant's college degree is, as long as th
29 Fly2HMO: So sue me My grandpa was a general. I had enough talks about patriotism from him, thank you. I knew many ROTC kids at my school and have several enli
30 bikerthai: If you will graduate in 2 years, you will have time to update your curriculum to make you more desirable for Boeing. Is this Pro Aeronautic and Engine
31 StuckInCA: Ugh. Any respectable Engineering degree isn't going to be something you switch into in your last two years and wrap up. To put it in perspective, my
32 DiamondFlyer: Dropout isn't exactly the word I'd use, but I suppose some might. At one point, I was in the AS program, but realized quickly that if I'm on the path
33 bikerthai: Things may have changed since my days at the U of W Aeronautical. With luck and heavy class load, I graduated with 182 units (two over minimum) in 2
34 Stratofortress: - What do you want to do exactly? Anything? - Are you willing to move and to where? - What experience and and schooling do you have? (Seems that nobod
35 bikerthai: This is actually good advice. If Pro-Aeronautics is not an Engineering Degree, then you have a good shot at a Tech/Designer position. Tech/Designers
36 c5load: AFAIK, my degree is simply a Prof. Aeronautics degree. Is it possible to perhaps minor in something related to engineering and go that route? I'm alr
37 Fly2HMO: Probably a poor choice of words on my part in hindsight. But I agree with your point.
38 bikerthai: Embry-Riddle has a good working relationship with Boeing. Your local advisor may be more useful in pointing you in the right direction. Contacts can
39 DiamondFlyer: I do suppose it could be quite different in Prescott. I'm not real familiar with the program out there, other than I know that you guys don't have ne
40 Fly2HMO: That's why most of the AS quitters I knew at PRC went that route. They all complained the training was "too tough" "not fun" "very demanding". My res
41 bikerthai: Some folks don't even know answers to those questions even after they graduated. bikerthai
42 RoseFlyer: Stress is an area where there are tons of opportunities and the pay is good. However, it takes a lot of technical skills to be able to do the job and
43 Eskimotail: Just curious, Are you inside? Do you know of folks actually on the street that do not want to be? I see there have been some furloughs from both tech
44 c5load: What's wrong with that? Take a general manager at Lowe's for example. Why would he want to accept a job someplace where his education and experience
45 BMI727: I agree about engineering almost certainly being a 4 year deal. Even going to community college may or may not be helpful. I heard today that BDS is
46 413X3: if you are getting a degree in something aviation related but it isn't engineering or mechanical, you better be going to a community college. Unbeliev
47 tdscanuck: It's because you can't do anything in the aviation world, especially repairs, without stress analysis. And even when orders dry up and production lin
48 jetmech: Since we're on the subject, does Boeing recognise mechanical engineering degrees conferred outside the US? Regards, JetMech
49 bikerthai: I would bet Boeing recognizes tdscnuck's degree (I assume it is an Engineering degree). In your case, Boeing do have Australian Engineering Staff in
50 bikerthai: FYI. This is a bad link. Just go to the Boeing Web site for HR and or College Relations. bikerthai
51 tdscanuck: They automatically recognize anything accredited by ABET, which covers more than just the US. http://www.abet.org/AccredProgramSearch/AccreditationSe
52 BoeEngr: The area I work in is pretty much all engineering, so I'm not sure that your education and background would fit, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't els
53 Stratofortress: Getting in is not an easy process and it takes dedication even with a stellar background... 1. Do not use a generic resume to apply for jobs 2. Read p
54 jetmech: Thanks for the info gents! Australia doesn't seem to be on the ABET list, so I guess I will shoot of some emails to Boeing to find out more details.
55 BMI727: I think that Boeing has some pretty significant operations down under, so they probably already employ quite a few Australian engineers.
56 Wingscrubber: Don't limit yourself just to Boeing - there's Lockheed, Northrop grumman, Textron; Cessna or Bell, Hawker Beechcraft, Bombardier(Learjet), United Tech
57 bikerthai: Directly from the Boeing Australia Web Page: "Boeing’s presence in Australia is the company’s largest footprint outside the United States. " Work
58 c5load: For the past 6 yrs I have been a loadmaster on the C-5, and have about 1100 hours now.
59 474218: With your background I would recommend looking to Lockheed Martin rather than Boeing. The C-5M program will being going on for years. Georgia has muc
60 jetmech: Fair enough. I was hoping to spend a few years working overseas in the US or UK whilst seeing some of the world as well. However, it's good to know B
61 bikerthai: No argument here in terms of weather, pay scale, cost of living etc. . . except the following: 1) I would prefer summer in Washington. And the mounta
62 burnsie28: One boeing test pilot told me that pretty much anymore, you have to know someone at Boeing pretty well, and seeing how they don't have many positions,
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From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, 
), then again I don't want to start somewhere where average joe with a high school diploma works. Don't think I'm sounding smug or uptight, it's just that my wife holds a degree in french and there ain't a whole hoot she can do with me being in the military! I just want to be able to be in a decent paying position where my education will come in handy. Thanks for your input.
From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1486 posts, 
And this is not a rumor, it's 100% verifiable as my school does surveys on their graduates and verifies how well they're doing.
From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 2184 posts, 
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