c5load From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3124 times:
The 787 has ~3 airframes in testing right now? Aircraft go through pretty rigorous testing while in that phase, so what happens to them after it is all complete? Is it kinda like a car dealership whereas the demonstration models get discounted for sale, but are still sold new? Or does Boeing hang on to them for any further testing, or for parts for future airplanes?
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
rwessel From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1989 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3067 times:
Actually the fifth 787 flew yesterday. The sixth (and final) test airframe should fly by the end of July.
It varies, but usually they are sold, although sometime one is kept by the manufacturer for further development and testing. Usually there's a fair bit of work that needs to be done before the test airframes are ready for customers, so they tend to be delivered ~6 months *after* the first customer deliveries.
The initial six 787s (the ones in the test program), have ended up somewhat overweight, and Boeing's original plan to deliver them to customers has been changed, with the customers who were assigned those frame numbers getting later production builds instead.
AFAIK, Boeing is still planning on selling those, but since they'll be heavy, and have had rather more rework and deviations from the "real" production baselines, they'll likely be sold at a fair discount to the nominal 787 prices, and with some performance restrictions (basically weight and range). Someone needing a short range version for cheap is a likely candidate, and so would be some BBJ customers.
BoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 312 posts, RR: 33 Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2987 times:
For the 787-8, there are 6 test airplanes. At the conclusion of the flight test program, numbers 1-3 will remain with Boeing and be used as test beds for future improvements and testing. Numbers 4-6 will go under an extensive refurbishment program (in San Antonio), where the test equipment will be removed and sent back to Boeing Flight Test for use on future programs. The planes will be put into a deliverable condition, be updated to the most current configuration, and sold at a substantial discount. The feeling is they'll go as VIP airplanes rather than to airlines, but we'll see.
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2934 times:
Quoting c5load (Thread starter): Is it kinda like a car dealership whereas the demonstration models get discounted for sale, but are still sold new? Or does Boeing hang on to them for any further testing, or for parts for future airplanes?
It depends. The first 737 & 747 are at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, the rest were sold. The first 757 still lives at Boeing field as a test-bed for Boeing defence, the rest were sold. I think NASA has the first 767, the rest were sold. All the 777's were sold.
Quoting rwessel (Reply 1): AFAIK, Boeing is still planning on selling those
The first 3 stay with Boeing...they switched them from inventory (i.e. saleable) to R&D in their accounting statements last year. In theory, they could reverse that, but there'd be no reason to have done it in the first place if they ever intended to sell those three.
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31201 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2815 times:
Mostly the Manufacturer if they have no further need for testing would offer the Aircraft for sale after its completed in terms of Manufacture upto Customer configured status & at a lower cost
regds
MEL.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2229 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2523 times:
At Cessna there are usually 3 test aircraft for new Citation certification projects. The prototype is never sold, and is retained in engineering for post TC cert efforts. Some are stretched for future models, used for engine test bed development, or new system developments and upgrades - they are kept on an experimental ticket. The other two test aircraft are reconditioned and sold to customers. They are refurbished (new interior and paint), and the customer gets a good price.
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2211 posts, RR: 17 Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2453 times:
Ser. no. 4 Concorde is on display at the IWM Duxford complete with emerg escape chute and test equipment.
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2382 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3): It depends. The first 737 & 747 are at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, the rest were sold. The first 757 still lives at Boeing field as a test-bed for Boeing defence, the rest were sold. I think NASA has the first 767, the rest were sold. All the 777's were sold.
The straight scoop:
# 1 707 is at the Smithsonian
# 1 717 ???
# 1 727 is at the Museum of Flight
# 1 737 " " " " " "
# 1 747 " " " " " "
# 1 757 owned by Boeing
# 1 767 owned by Boeing
# 1 777 owned by Cathay Pacific
# 1 787 owned by Boeing
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
boeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 992 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2378 times:
ZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2376 times:
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2164 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3): The first 737 & 747 are at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, the rest were sold. The first 757 still lives at Boeing field as a test-bed for Boeing defence, the rest were sold.
The first 727 built and the one that made the first flight was delivered to UA about 18 months later. It was registered N7001U. The second 727 used in the test program was retained by Boeing and was used for various testing and development activities. I think much of it still exists although it was dismantled. The 2nd 727 is sometimes confused with the 1st due to the N72700 registration. Both aircraft in 1963 photo below behind the Dash 80. N72700 at the back.
Partly-dismantled 2nd 727 being used for paint durability testing at BFI in 1982.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5929 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2158 times:
Many times, certification test articles have critical structural and/or equipment differences from production models...sometimes, this even precludes being able to certify the test article.
As an example:
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 5): At Cessna there are usually 3 test aircraft for new Citation certification projects. The prototype is never sold, and is retained in engineering for post TC cert efforts. Some are stretched for future models, used for engine test bed development, or new system developments and upgrades - they are kept on an experimental ticket.
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8): # 1 707 is at the Smithsonian
Are you referring to dash 80? Dash 80 was technically neither the 707 nor the 717 (original-KC-135) prototype, as it is quite different from both I've often wondered what became of the actual first 707 off of the line...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26684 posts, RR: 83 Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2150 times:
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 10): To bad Boeing didn't see fit to bring (the first 767) home....
N767BA was converted into an Airborne Surveilance Testbed for the US Army, so she really would not be suitable as an exhibit of a passenger 767.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2110 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12): Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
# 1 707 is at the Smithsonian
Are you referring to dash 80? Dash 80 was technically neither the 707 nor the 717 (original-KC-135) prototype, as it is quite different from both I've often wondered what became of the actual first 707 off of the line...
The first one off the line, and the one that made the 707's first flight December 20, 1957, was N708PA for Pan Am. It was the 6th 707 delivered on November 30, 1958. It was written off September 17, 1965 when it struck a mountain on the island of Montserrat in bad weather during a short (159 nm) flight from Martinique (FDF) to Antigua (ANU). All 30 aboard (9 crew and only 21 passengers) were killed. It was scheduled to continue from ANU to SJU and JFK. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19650917-0
boeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 992 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2022 times:
Quoting Tod (Reply 15): The first two 767-300ER were sold.
One went to Gulf Air.
The other went to Lauda and it is the one that crashed in Tailand.
Interesting because what I have read N351AA 767-323ER is the first true Boeing built 767-300ER. And since American Airlines was the launch customer for the -300ER. The first 767-300 NON-ER was scrapped in VCV a couple of months ago.
Tod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1682 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2019 times:
Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 16): Interesting because what I have read N351AA 767-323ER is the first true Boeing built 767-300ER. And since American Airlines was the launch customer for the -300ER.
N351AA was delivered first, but these two were the prototype airframes and it took the 767 Special Interiors Task Force (part of Payloads Engineering in Everett) quite a while to accomplish the change into customer configuration.
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I've often wondered what became of the actual first 707 off of the line...
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