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Can Someone Operate Under Someone Else's AOC  
User currently offlineeugegall From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Lets say someone wanted to start an airline and leased a 737-300.

Could they contact another company that has an AOC to do a deal on operating under theirs? Is it really that simple?

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Yes, although if they are not currently flying the type of a/c ypu want to use then they have to put it under their AOC which takes some time and money. DirectAir uses Xtra Airways for their flights with a B734.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1399 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

Yes - a couple of examples from the UK: this was the model used in the early days of Easyjet (ended up hugely successful) and the early (in fact the only) days of Varsity Express (ended up hugely unsuccessful).

Based on my very crude statistical analysis, this business model is no indicator of future success or failure  



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2743 times:

And generally you pay for the paint (or stickers) if that's important to you....about $20K for a 733


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineeugegall From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2738 times:

Ok Great.

So are there companies out there that will openly allow another company to operate under their AOC?

If they do operate with a 734 would it take much time to start flying? Also do we have to use the crew from the company that owns the AOC?

Thanks again all


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Quoting eugegall (Reply 4):
Also do we have to use the crew from the company that owns the AOC?

Yes, otherwise it is known as a dry/damp lease and then you have to have your own AOC. The only thing you are responsible for is the fuel outside of the hourly rate. You want an ACMI (Aircraft,Crew,MX and Insurance) lease. You just focus on putting pax on the plane. There maybe some FAA paperwork but your lessor should be able to help you out.

You can start flying the minute you have the cash and the a/c is available. Usually operators want a minimum number of garaunteed hours with about half upfront. These are general rules.

Just curious, what cities are you thinking about serving?



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineeugegall From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

Initially London - Geneva

I was prompted when a friend who owns 3 hotels in the French alps said he would buy half of the seats up front for the whole ski season.

The other 7 months of the year I'm not sure, Would maybe service London - Lanzarote daily as i know there are limited flights there.

Would i be able to dress the crew I'm my own uniform and customize the livery on the outside of the aircraft?

Thanks

[Edited 2010-06-18 12:20:51]

User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3499 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

Quoting eugegall (Reply 6):
Would i be able to dress the crew I'm my own uniform and customize the livery on the outside of the aircraft?

You probably could work out the uniform thing with the lessor and you can definitely do a new livery but your lessor will want a commitment from you b/c if you grow broke they have to spend the money to paint it back. I'd think they would want more than a 3 month commitment.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineeugegall From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

I would want to commit to more than 3 months up front anyway for my peace of mine!

lastly. could i sell the seats i have left though a travel agent? I guess i can!


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4702 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 2531 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 5):
The only thing you are responsible for is the fuel outside of the hourly rate. You want an ACMI (Aircraft,Crew,MX and Insurance) lease.

that would not only mean aranging (and paying) for fuel yourself, but also navigation fees, landing fees, handling fees etc. Especially the navigation fees are very tricky as they are charged on the operating flight number (IIRC), which is the one of your lessor. It makes more sense to lease it on an ad-hoc basis (or everything included).



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineeugegall From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Quoting JRadier (Reply 9):

The problem with Ad-hoc is that its more suited for short term lease.

Im planning on 4 flights a day for the whole year. It would work out much better for me to do the work myself.

Please correct me if im wrong?


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4702 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Quoting eugegall (Reply 10):
The problem with Ad-hoc is that its more suited for short term lease.

Im planning on 4 flights a day for the whole year. It would work out much better for me to do the work myself.

Please correct me if im wrong?

Ad-hoc indeed isn't the best thing, but it comes closer than normal ACMI lease. For example navigation fees, and I assume landing fees (though I am not sure), are by default charged to the operating carrier. And the question really is how much sense it makes when you basically lease-in the entire operation to contract handling etc yourself. It will be the operating carrier that will make all the operational decisions, and will need to be in contact with the handler, so why put yourself in there as a middle man. I'd just lay out the requirements to the operating carrier and have them deal with the contracting. They are far more suitable to asses what they need from the handler than you as a commercial only carrier are.

but that's just my 2 cents.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
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