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How Do You Rotate A DC-9?  
User currently offlineTarzanboy From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 132 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5135 times:

Are there any DC-9 drivers here? Have you ever flown the DC-9 30 or 50?

What is the rotation technique? I have seen some cockpit pictures of the PFD and the attitude pitch lines are graded in intervals of 5 degrees, so moving up from the horizon there are 2 bars and then a 15 degree bar labelled 15.

I have been searching online but could not find the answer to this question, at what pitch attitude angle would the DC-9 30 or 50 [not MD-80] have a tailstrike?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6381 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5103 times:

I hear overloading the tail section (with ice or cargo) does wonders 
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Duke Geren



Of course, this also leads to a tail strike...  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

Easy, pull back on the yoke!

I'm not on the 9 but looking at the manual, a normal rotation is 3 degrees per second to the target all engine pitch attitude in one smooth motion. You will whack the tail at approx 11.5 degrees with the mains still planted on the ground.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinetarzanboy From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Tb727, hey - are you quoting from a DC-9 manual? Thanks dude.

User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4886 times:

Quoting tarzanboy (Reply 3):
Tb727, hey - are you quoting from a DC-9 manual? Thanks dude.


Yep, right out of our manual.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 2):
Easy, pull back on the yoke!

Should the airplane be accelerating down the runway first?     


User currently offlinecobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4726 times:

I also wondered about Dc-9 rotation. I was scared it could be tailstrike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3JPh7LRDaQ


User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 4617 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 5):
Should the airplane be accelerating down the runway first?

Yeah, preferably beyond Vr will give you the best chance at getting off the ground!



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlinepilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3150 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4414 times:

Quoting cobra27 (Reply 6):
I also wondered about Dc-9 rotation. I was scared it could be tailstrike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3JPh...LRDaQ

You can tailstrike any aircraft if you aren't paying attention.



DMI
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2823 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

I have flown every variety of DC-9 except the -20. Rotate at approximately 3 degrees per second. Two engine pitch for climbout will be around 13-18 degrees nose high depending on a host of conditions such as weight, temp, altitude, engines installed, etc. Too many specifics to generalize, but 15 degrees nose high is the normal two engine attitude plus or minus a couple of degrees, with single engine climbout attitude being maybe 4 degrees lower initially (12.5 is a common initial target). It is rather difficult but not impossible to get a tailstrike on takeoff in a DC-9, much harder than a 757 or 767-300 for instance.

I don't have my manual set handy (I am not currently flying the DC-9), but I recall that a tailstrike happens on takeoff at a tad more than 11 degrees pitch, which seems to square with what Tb727 is saying. If you rotate at the correct speed at 3 degrees per second you won't hit the tail.

There is absolutely nothing novel or unpredictable in the handling of the DC-9; rotation is entirely conventional.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

Quoting Tarzanboy (Thread starter):
How Do You Rotate A DC-9?

As has been said ad-nauseaum, there's nothing special about the take-off procedure for the DC-9s. And I've seen 3 deg. per sec. rotation rate quoted in AFMS and used as a rule of thumb in everything from a C150 to 737s and 777s


Bonus points to anybody who can come up with an airplane or two that would be very different from the norm   


User currently offlinetarzanboy From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4353 times:

Thanks for the further info PGNCS et al.

Hey Tb727, out of curiosity, if you don't fly the DC-9, where did you get the manual!?

Can regular non flyers buy flight manuals?

[Edited 2010-07-14 15:49:58]

User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10018 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4336 times:
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Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Bonus points to anybody who can come up with an airplane or two that would be very different from the norm

The B-52?

 



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2823 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

Quoting tarzanboy (Reply 11):
Can regular non flyers buy flight manuals?

I have no knowledge of this site or product, so buy at your own risk. I will post it here as it was obtained by a very quick Google search (there are many other similar offers out there):

http://www.flight-manuals.com/mcdonn...uglas-dc9-flight-handbook-tw9.html

I know nothing of this, but for older aircraft especially the manuals are frequently available, although are certainly not guaranteed to be current or used for aircraft operation.

Seek and ye shall find. There's a lot of stuff out there, and it varies dramatically in quality.

Quoting tarzanboy (Reply 11):
Thanks for the further info PGNCS et al.

You are most welcome!


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2699 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4312 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Bonus points to anybody who can come up with an airplane or two that would be very different from the norm

Harrier?

Someone else already said B-52.  


User currently offlinetb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

Quoting tarzanboy (Reply 11):
Thanks for the further info PGNCS et al.

Hey Tb727, out of curiosity, if you don't fly the DC-9, where did you get the manual!?

I'm on the 72 but for whatever reason I get a copy of the DC-9 as well when we get revisions on CD, I think I just asked for it last time. I wouldn't give out my companies manuals because we are small and our name is all over it(plus I am pretty sure I am not allowed) but the site that PGNCS directed you to would probably be good enough for an avid aviation fan like yourself. For $17, that's pretty good for reference only.

[Edited 2010-07-14 17:52:07]


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 12):
The B-52?
Quoting bohica (Reply 14):
Harrier?

I was thinking of those two precisely.

However, in the harrier's case, a normal takeoff would be pretty conventional.

As for the B-52, well that thing just magically levitates tail first 


User currently offlinePackcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

How different is the 764? or 753? or 739? Does that much added length mean slower rotation?

I do not as about Airbus becuase they appear to sit fairly high on their gear, I doubt they'd be in danger.



Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
User currently offlinejetlagged From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 2556 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3976 times:

This site has a large amount of operations manual info to download, including normal takeoff procedures. Unfortunately nothing on the DC-9, but there are sections on the 717 and MD80 which are closely related.

http://www.smartcockpit.com
http://www.smartcockpit.com/pdf/plane/boeing/B717/diagrams/0009/
http://www.smartcockpit.com/pdf/plane/boeing/MD-80/diagrams/0015/



The glass isn't half empty, or half full, it's twice as big as it needs to be.
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